Yes, but you must realize that people like fewlio must justify and rationalize their poor choices.
NOJ's Tal Set--"An Anthem to the Reproduction of Chess Pieces"
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Ok this is just a ridiculous argument. your NOJ set increase in value because NOJ raised his prices by DOUBLE and that would affect the price you can sell it for used, even if raising prices limits the number of sets you can sell, if you're a small shop you're limited anyway and so it makes sense to gouge the customers, if you lose potential buyers it may not be a loss at all if you are so backlogged that orders ship a year or so later. It has nothing to do with some added prestige and appreciation for the actual set over time by discerning eyes, and everything to do with an arbitrary price jacking decision by NOJ.
Dec 14, 2017
0
#204
fewlio wrote:
Ok this is just a ridiculous argument. your NOJ set increase in value because NOJ raised his prices by DOUBLE and that would affect the price you can sell it for used, even if raising prices limits the number of sets you can sell, if you're a small shop you're limited anyway and so it makes sense to gouge the customers, if you lose potential buyers it may not be a loss at all if you are so backlogged that orders ship a year or so later. It has nothing to do with some added prestige and appreciation for the actual set over time by discerning eyes, and everything to do with an arbitrary price jacking decision by NOJ.
Yes, continue to steer away from the fact that you are being gouged by Chess Bazaar for a poor quality set.
I understand from your previous postings that you have no problem ripping off others' works so you can have what you want at a reduced price. Unfortunately for you, CB is still charging way too much for the low quality product you are buying. Enjoy that.
Stauntonmaster wrote:
Auction is the ultimate test of value. We put one Dubrovnik Noj set on auction on ebay and one Dubrovnik copy from Chessbazaar and then wait and see to see which one sells at the highest price. Customers will be the judge of value. Obviously the one from Noj will sell for at least 10 times the price of CB copy and honestly I seriously doubt if the copy of CB would sell at all.
incorrect as both sets are still in production. the ultimate test of individual set value would be after both sets are out of production and completely unavailable to buy new. further, if CB sells 10,000 sets at 150 dollars, and NOJ sells 100 at 700 dollars, there was clearly more market value in the CB sets. As Stalin himself said, quantity has a quality all its own.
Dec 14, 2017
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#206
maik1988 wrote:
Let's refrain from the name calling. I personally agree with Ron and the others here who say that the making of this chess set by cb was unethical at the least. I used to be in between views on this topic, but actually seeing the pictures of the set just made me feel a bit sad inside. The words run off the mill, blatant and poor come to mind. I was never interested in anything cb sold, to be honest, mostly because the individual pieces in their sets look like a jumble of different ideas and styles rather than a collected 'whole', but also because their knights are often simply overstated and vulgar looking. I also feel proud of the fact that I chose to invest in a Noj set now and look forward to its arrival in the new year.
On a different note: I've been questioning whether maybe I should change my order of a dubrovnik II in walnut and maple to a stained version, perhaps red or brown. I agree with Frank when he said that the staining on these pieces looks superb. I'm more drawn to natural wood colours, also because of the grain, but on the other hand maple and walnut pieces might be more difficult to pair with a board than brown stain and maple, which itself would look good on a walnut and maple board. I'd like to say I'll wait and see when the set gets here, but I feel oddly excited about the set itself and am therefore thinking of the best ways to accommodate it. Do any of you Noj dubrovnik (I or II) owners have any advice in this matter? With which boards do you pair your dubrovniks?
The answer is that it depends on what how you plan on using your Noj Dubrovnik II set.
I am somewhat qualified as I now own all three of the current versions of that set. I have owned my Walnut Dubrovnik II set since May of 2010. I bought my Noj Dubrovnik II Red set 2 years ago, and I am getting my Dubrovnik II brown stained set today (yes, I am waiting for the delivery man as I write this).
I play Chess with all my sets. After coming to this forum in 2014 I bought a lot of sets and the Noj Dubrovnik II comes out my favorite set.
As you may know, my Walnut Queens both developed chips in their collars which Gregor is replacing at no charge with today's delivery. I have used this set for G/45 and slower. The chips happened during storage as I found the chips in the packing material.
I bought the red dyed version 2 years ago as red is my favorite color and getting a red Dubrovnik was all the rage back then. The CB version was having serious problems with the color bleeding at any sign of moisture, so I got the Noj version. I found this set is also great but the red color is not as readily accepted by all my opponents.
In corresponding with Gregor regarding the chipped pieces, I asked him about rounding or otherwise softening the edges of the collars on a set so I could use it for more robust play and usage. He tried this and reported back to me that this made the set look not good and he did not feel this would stop the chips as expected.
After watching Bobby Fischer and his set in videos I realized that his set was dyed brown and not Walnut. I asked Gregor and he agreed that the Maple would be more durable and robust than the Walnut. So, I ordered the Brown version. I plan on using this set in my new, every day carry chess set up that I will describe and picture in a future topic. In that setup I have one of HoS prototype Deluxe bags with the bandolier loops. In the loops I have my original plastic Ultimate Chess set. I have a flat Plano tackle box with padding I put in to store my Noj Dubrovnik II, Brown set. I bought the 2.13" folding Walnut board that Wholesale Chess sells which is made by Ferrer. I also have 2 of the thin, flexible mousepad boards in green, one from American Chess Equipment to go with the Ultimate plastic set and the other from The Chess House for use with the Dubrovnik II, brown set. For clocks I am going to carry 2 V-Tek 300 clocks, one in black and the other in white. There might be a time when I want to loan out one set, board and clock while using the other myself.
My Walnut Dubrovnik II set lives with my BCE magnetic board in green and a green vinyl board. My Red Dubrovnik II set lives with my BCE magnetic board in Green Blue (or is it Blue Green?!?) and a green Flex Pad board from The Chess House. Each of these sets has a Chronos GX clock with it. Of course my red Dubrovnik II has a red clock to go along with it 
@Eyechess: That description of your inventory in military terms is referred to as being "Locked and Loaded". Quite an arsenal you posses! Congratulations!
Dec 14, 2017
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#208
QtoQlevel3 wrote:
@Eyechess: That description of your inventory in military terms is referred to as being "Locked and Loaded". Quite an arsenal you posses! Congratulations!
Thanks.
Dec 14, 2017
0
#209
Well,virtually the entire acoustic guitar industry has ripped off C.F.Martin guitars,who literally invented the steel string guitar....Btw,they are still a superb, profitable mfg!r......Some folks simply are not willing to spend NOJ money and choose an alternative.I would not tell someone who bought a Yamaha or Ibanez or Blueridge guitar that they bought junk.....but....don't get me wrong.I think the NOJ sets are worthy.Still,when I bought my sets and boards last year(quite a few from CB) I simply wanted to amass a collection of sets that appealed to "me"....at a particular price point.
I could afford the NOJ sets,but wanted a new guitar,which was alot more cash,so that's where the extra money went......I have definitely had issues with CB and I absolutely respect the legion of NOJ owners/fans(I'd hope to be one at some point)but the particular sets I got from CB are quite nice.If someone does not like them,well that's on you....Best to all.
Stauntonmaster, you keep harping on the future value of chess sets. I for one am not buying sets as an investment strategy or a hedge against inflation. I'm a single, 67-year old non-breeder, so I can't even use the phony-baloney argument of "passing along a valuable asset to my grieving heirs" as an excuse to buy another chess set. I buy the sets I like, intend to use on a regular basis, and can afford. When a new set displaces a set I have in rotation, I sell the old one, or give it away.
I’m a big fan of my CB Dubrovnik set but I must say I’m not impressed with this new offering. The CB knight looks like it’s sporting a baby bump whereas the NOJ truly looks like a steed. And the variation in the base heights isn’t working for me either.
Stauntonmaster wrote:
If Noj obtained a copyright for their dubrovnik set dated before the date of CB production of Dubrovnik then Noj has a patent right, this also applies to their Tal’s set.
Good luck trying bring a case of patent infringement in India! A never ending black hole you can throw your money into.
Dec 15, 2017
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#213
The issue is not legality and those that bring it up are trying to excuse Chess Bazaar for their unethical behavior. I am sorry but Chess Bazaar is crass and of low business morals with their behavior.
It also is noteworthy that people like fewlio who claim their personal poverty is the reason why they must buy from the cheaper Chess Bazaar, are noticeably quiet now that Chess Bazaar is charging $350 for this poorly designed reproduction. This is actually not cheap at all and anyone that pays that much for a Chess set is certainly not financially needy as fewlio tried to portray himself when rationalizing why he “could not” pay the Noj price.
I find great humor that he will be paying so much money for such a low quality product when he could simply pay a bit more money for such an excellent and perfect product with phenomenal service backing it. *sarcasm alert* But alas poor fewlio, he is so poor and needy that this is all he can afford. And of course he is forced to buy this type of Chess set.
Hypothetical visual design comparison considerations (strictly a spoof here not intended to hurt anyones disposition): CB's model for their TAL knight set as opposed to Noj's model for their TAL knight. Someone needs to get a better model casting agent IMHO.
Let’s be honest it wouldn’t involve much effort on the part of Chessbazzar to attain this ‘design’, as all it would take is for them to purchase a set directly from NOJ.
im with fewlio. ill buy cb for a few $ less (like 1/3 less). never liked pompous windbags either. Merry Christmas!
Dec 15, 2017
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#219
Looking at that first photo of the,... weight challenged horse I just had a brain,...f...idea.
Wouldn't it be cool if we would have the opposite colors for the Knights' manes? You know, the mane would be the color of the opposite side, just like some of the sets have opposite colors for the finials of the Bishops and sometimes the Queens and Kings... I know, I know, I have too much time between patients today...
Chessbazaar copies fo not have any long term value simply because they are ‘copy’ and not authentic. This is true of any other work of art: a painting by Da Vinci is worth $1000000000 but the copy of the same work is $1.00. True that Noj chess sets are more expensive but their long term value keeps increasing every year. As proof, the Dubrovnik chess sets that I bought from Noj around $300 a few years ago are now over $600 whereas a dubrovnik chess set which I bought from Chessbazaar a few years ago for over $150 is now around $50-$70 on ebay. That means I have lost around 50% to 70%. Lets put two pre-owned Dubrovnik chess sets in an auction one by CB and the other by Noj, surely the one by Noj would sell at the highest reasonable price whereas the one by CB at the lowest expected price by its seller. Honestly, who wants to buy a pre-owned CB chess set above its original price? The original design of all of CB chess sets is the simple cheap traditional staunton which they keep modifying to fake copies of other chess sets. They produce their chess sets at Indian price and sell them to naive customers at European price. Compare the wages of a Noj worker with that of CB’s and the cost of living in Slovenia and the cost of living in India, therefore, Chessbazaar charging the customers $400 for a set is a real broad daylight rip-off, in India with $1 per day one can live whereas in Europe would be around $100. Therefore, Noj $600 is extremely fair when you compare it with CB’s price of $400. CB has taken its American and European customers for fools.
This is true.
To say that the European Maple is less desirable and/or a lesser quality than the Boxwood from India is some kind of ridiculous. If you want a material with no grain to it then by all means get plastic.
Ebony is alright but is also problematic at best. It is the one wood that cracks the most. Also Chess Bazaar most likely uses a lower quality Ebony to keep the price down.
Chess Bazaar has not previously lowered the price they charge for a Chess set so I do not understand why you think they will for this set. I guess if you want crap then you will pay a lot of money for it even though for a few more dollars you can have a much higher quality.