NOJ's Tal Set--"An Anthem to the Reproduction of Chess Pieces"

This topic and thread is about the Noj set.  Look at the title.

fewlio came into this thread saying that he felt that Noj was way too high in price and, in his word, gouging people.

He then said he was going to communicate with Chess Bazaar to copy this set for a much cheaper price.

Remember that the inception of this reproduction is from Chuck Grau and his friend Phil.  There is no original set to be found so using an original for reproduction purposes was and currently is not possible.

So, Chuck and Phil PAID their own money to a commercial person to make technical drawings of the pieces for production purposes.

They then contacted Gregor,, of Noj and Gregor then proceeded to come up with this reproduction from only the drawings and a few photographs.  Gregor went through a high number of iterations in pieces until he finalized on what we see now and everyone agrees is an exceptional and very accurate reproduction of the original.

fewlio crassly complained and then went to Chess Bazaar where they did a very poor reproduction of their own.  The hard evidence is that Chess Bazaar had to use the Noj creation to copy and therefore duplicate the design, there is no other way for them to have come up with even their poor representation without using the work put out by Chuck, Phil and Gregor.  This is a fact.

As I have noted, Chess Bazaar has raised their prices in the last year or so.  Now they come out with this poor copy and are retailing it for a whopping $349.  My point is that this is way too much money to pay for something that is so far off the original design and so poorly

designed.  Look at the inconsistency between the different piece bases that should not be there.  Look at the visual grossness of the Knight.

I have not and will not insinuate anything.  The fact is that if someone pays even $225 for this CB set, compared to the original and Noj set (which is still the topic of this discussion after all), they are paying way too much for such a crap set.  If the set were priced at $125 then I would say that you get what you pay for.  As it is,...well give me a break.

Eyechess...I was not referring specifically to "you". I was making a broad generalization,based on comments in general....Also, I realize this is an NOJ thread and mentioned numerous times how much I admire those products.....The only reason(which seemed valid to me)that I brought up CB was the bashing by you and others! This is an open forum,from what I see...No?

Yes, it certainly is an open forum.

I own 2 CB sets and like them very much.  After communicating with loubalch, I probably will buy a Romanian set from them as well.  I do not have it out for CB.

Looking at their 1961 set shows the design to be very poor at best.

Also I have read from many, including you, the horrors of dealing with the quality problems and then dealing with their customer service.  I personally do not see the sense in gambling over $125 if even that hoping those problems do not occur.

If my consistently pointing out these problems as reasons to not buy from them is bashing, then I am bashing.  However I do not believe I have bashed or currently am bashing CB or any other company or person.

Getting back on topic with a similarity that you will appreciate: Buying the CB 1961 version compared to buying the Noj version is like buying a guitar from WalMart compared to a Martin guitar.  And the WalMart guitar is over priced by at least $125.

No arguments from me and I still don't understand why you think I'm referring to you in my postings.They are a generalization and I make it my business to be fair to all involved,without inflammatory comments....Btw, I'd say it was more like comparing Martin to the stuff coming in from China(which is not so bad these days)......Lets  get back to the NOJ stuff.....I love those pictures.

This is ridiculous!   A walmart guitar won't sound as good or play as well as a martin.  those two are functionally not the same. a 5 dollar plastic thrift store chess set will play chess just as well as the most expensive set in the world, because functionally they are the same.  A better comparison is cheap furniture vs expensive, although there as well there may be a functional difference whereas there won't be in chess sets.

What maturity on this thread!

Which is why you have to flood every single thread on this forum with your crazy hate and copy&paste-bullshit, yep. Waste of time. It has become hard to find the nice and useful posts under all that excrement.

You really believe people don't see through all your absurd posts and ridiculous statements? Your fake claims of your expertise and all the alleged "experiences" you made, all the hundreds of sets of all the vendors you bought? Keep up the scam, it's very entertaining, but it also shows how desperate you are

And now you reveal your true ignorance of things.

If you limit the physical aspects of a Chess set to being able to play a game of Chess with, you are extremely short sighted.

The design of the pieces which include the weighting and balance do make a particular set more functional for play than others.  A cheap plastic set that is not weighted will certainly not be as functional during a game of Chess than a nicer one.

In this particular case we are talking about a reproduction of a particular set from the Soviet area in or about 1961.  This set has definite characteristics in shape and design that make it more aesthetic and desirable to look upon in general and during a game of Chess.

The set in discussion made by Noj looks to be a very close to accurate reproduction of the 1961 set.  Look at the thick and deep bases that is consistent to all the pieces of this set.  None of the Staunton design sets you look at have that thickness and heft of the piece bases.  Look at the Knight design and see how the Noj set looks just about identical to the original you see in photos.  So the Noj set is very true in looks and function to the original.

Now, look again at the Chess Bazaar version of this reproduction.  The inconsistency of the bases between pieces makes it look as if the pieces come from a number of different set designs.  And some of the pieces do look very similar to many Staunton sets you find.  The Knights do have that head back look to them but the similarity shockingly stops there.  The CB Knights are indeed fat with their cheeks looking puffed out or excessively chubby.  This Knight design looks like a caricature of the original and Noj design.  So, I'm sorry for you but that particular CB set is a dismal failure as a reproduction of the 1961 set.

If that doesn't matter to you, then why buy it as a reproduction of the Noj set which you did admire when it first came out before the CB offering was ever created?

If all you want is a set to play Chess with then by all means buy a cheap set.  If you want wood there are a number of sets available from a number of places including The House of Staunton for well under $70.  And $70 is less than a third of the $225 you claim you are going to buy this Chess Bazaar monstrosity for.

So, sorry Charlie,...err I mean fewlio,...the Noj set IS functionally a much higher quality set and will look and perform as much better than the CB version like a Martin guitar will sound better than one from WalMart.

Take a moment and forget about this 1961 design.  Look at the Chess sets Chess Bazaar offers.  There are a number of nicer looking ones that cost a whole lot less than $350 retail/$225 on sale.

And for that price range go ahead and look at the sets The House of Staunton offers.  For the price range you are looking at, HoS has a LOT of really nice sets, much nicer So this piece of crap that Chess Bazaar is offering.

So please understand that unlike others I am not bashing or trashing Chess Bazaar.  I am trashing and bashing this ugly and terrible looking set they claim is a reproduction of the 1961 set.  Others have trashed and bashed Chess Bazaar's customer service which I have not personally experienced but read many negative anecdotes about on this very forum.

You may not like looking at it, or the feel of it, but as to how it functions in playing the game of chess, the cheapest set is equal to the most expensive.  Actually if pieces aren't weighted, it required less calories, or energy, to move them.  It certainly doesn't hinder your ability to move the pieces.  Your ideas are nonsense.

As I said, you are showing your true colors and ignorance.  Good luck with the overpriced piece of crap you plan on buying.

Good bye and enjoy your sets,whatever they are.Happy Holidays as well.

Oh, you haven't done that yet? Ah right because you will never do it, because it's bullshit and just the same slander you post everywhere. Or you maybe already did it and people laughed about you like usual and sent you the address of a good doctor

Slander is when you claim but don't present, and there are not hundreds supporting you, it's just you misrepresenting a few people. But maybe those are just the voices in your head? See a doctor!

You don't speak for all, you only represent your employer. Yes, please create more fake posts

@ Eyechess: I remember you posted a list of the dimensions (especially the width) of the dubrovnik II pieces in some other thread some time ago but cannot seem to find it. Could you repost those? I'd be very interested in what they are. I know that the king should be 39 mm, but don't know the others..

So, for a long long period you have this prejudice, the lower the price the lower the quality of wood. The higher the price, the higher the quality of wood. Thats what you argued with me a few weeks ago? 
Economy works in a strange way. 

No, there is no prejudice.

The fact is that usually the higher quality of any kind will have a higher price.

Note that I said usually not always.

Another fact is that historically The House of Staunton has higher quality products they sell.  This is because of the quality control they have had in place for many years.

What I did say, and still say, is that when you pay in the same price range for a set, The House of Staunton will have a higher quality product than Chess Bazaar.

No, quality in the sense? You talked about the wood quality. Not the craftsmanship. 
I agree that the Noj sets are close replica and they work for more hours per set than Chessbazaar. But you are wrong in the line, when you pay in the same price range. 
Two things you fail to understand is the price is not only related to quality, it is also related to cost. If the wood that is available in India is sold for 100x more in USA then the price will be higher only. Just because price is lower in chessbazaar doesn't means the wood used is of low quality. 

"Also chessbazaar uses a lower quality Ebony to keep the prices down." This is what you said.
Do you know the price of Ebony wood in India and USA. The price is down not because of low quality, its because of lower price of labour and lower price of Wood. Does Noj craftsman work for just $10-$15 a day? There is a huge difference in Economy. 

"I guess if you want crap then you will pay a lot of money for it even though for a few more dollars you can have a much higher quality."

$226-CB and $650-Noj.
Its few more dollars only for you. Not for everyone. The only thing you are seeing is the minute details. You are arguing it in a wrong way. If you ask the right question you will get the right answer. 
What quality Noj will give you if you pay them $226? This will be the right question. If you are ready to pay chessbazaar $500, then they would probably beat the Noj quality. The problem is they are focused on value for money than just Value. They want to sell more than selling the best. Both are doing business. One focuses on the best quality. One focuses on value for money. 
The lower price of Chessbazaar is due to
1) very low price of wood,
2) very low labour wages,
3) compromising quality for more production. 

Not because of poor wood quality. 

"The fact is that usually the higher quality of any kind will have a higher price."
This is wrong. Higher price may be due to higher cost and lower price may be due to lower cost. 

So, this is the last I will reply to  you, on this because you are using faulty logic and wrong information:

1. Noj is based in Europe, Slovenia to be specific.  They are not in the USA.

2. Noj uses European Walnut and European Maple exclusively.  They do not make anything our of Ebony at all.

3. The House of Staunton, which is based in the USA has all their sets made in India.  So the price of wood in the USA is not pertinent to this discussion.  The House of Staunton buys their sets already made and completed from India.  And yes, they use the better manufacturers in India.

4.  While higher cost very well mean a higher price, quality of both the wood and workmanship will also come into the price discussion.  

5. Thank you for agreeing that Chess Bazaar compromises quality for more production and therefore a lower price.  This is true and the point I have been making.