Hi Carl, How expensive is camel bone anyways. Do you have a lay-a-way plan? The set looks like a true winner. Something unique which will be a treasure in itself years to come to be passed down.
Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set
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Although I'm a meat eater and I like leather, the idea of bone pieces kind of weirds me out.
Oct 5, 2017
0
#2544
We are talking an heirloom set. A set to be passed down to generations. No leather bottoms for this set, would take away from the originality.
Making sets of glued together sections is a modern (largely Indian and Chinese) take on bone use.
In the 19th c and earlier bone sets were designed and made with the type of bone to be used in mind. The sizes and shapes avaliable informed the shapes of the pieces to a certain extent. You may wish to read our article on Barleycorn set design for further information.
Mike Darlow thought that whale bone was used for chess sets. I have never seen a set made of whale bone.
We have the only known stamped Jaques bone set and it is made of screwed together sections like all period bone sets.
The manufacturers should bear in mind when staining glued bone that superglue joints can fail on exposure to water and over time.
Oct 5, 2017
0
#2546
chessspy1 wrote:
Making sets of glued together sections is a modern (largely Indian and Chinese) take on bone use.
interesting..... however as you say its the modern way and is widely used in many other products made of bone. With modern techniques and materials used these sets will be heirloom quality no doubt. Already after only a few days the response we have received has been overwhelmingly positive , so yeah the collectors out there love this design based on the 1849 of which this topic is about in most part, anyhow.
Oct 6, 2017
0
#2547
Alan ..it would be nice to see your Jaques stamped bone set , so if you get the time post some pictures
Oct 7, 2017
0
#2548
One thing for sure is reproductions have improved exponentially in regards to OS. With the assistance from some great members on here and facebook the recent results of our attempts at Jaques knights has really improved.
below is the CB attempt which initially got me involved with a view to improving as it was so disappointing to see this design being billed as a Jaques reproduction; and our latest Jaques 1849 in bone, which has collectors talking!! 
Oct 7, 2017
0
#2549
I like the theory of a bone set , but that patchwork of the bone pieces makes my eyes water.
Wow another great set from GM-4U... you definitely are setting up the bar of the high standard... no a single ugly set in your whole catalog.
Oct 8, 2017
0
#2551
Bronco wrote:
I like the theory of a bone set , but that patchwork of the bone pieces makes my eyes water.
easily remedied with dye..these are the natural bone pieces and very close up too!
Oct 8, 2017
0
#2552
htdavid wrote:
Wow another great set from GM-4U... you definitely are setting up the bar of the high standard... no a single ugly set in your whole catalog.
thanks..we are delighted with this set
Is there a reason why you went with an early staunton knight design but then chose a much later bishop design? Looks slightly jarring to my eyes.
Oct 8, 2017
0
#2555
Minarima wrote:
Is there a reason why you went with an early staunton knight design but then chose a much later bishop design? Looks slightly jarring to my eyes.
the bishop will not be as shown, we are using an open mouth mitre bishop in the finished sets......likewise, the knight pedestal will be lowered and body compensated without losing height...
as kindly suggested by Frank Helwig
A little plug for an excision from my collection:
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Jaques-Staunton-Chess-Set-Ca-1855-59-/182816567647?hash=item2a90b7715f%3Ag%3AXOQAAOSw0oBZ2mXj&_trkparms=pageci%253A8cf39336-ad3e-11e7-9bc6-74dbd1801060%257Cparentrq%253A032fc13e15f0ab13307b7132fffd16cd%257Ciid%253A1
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Jaques-Staunton-Chess-Set-Ca-1855-59-/182816567647?hash=item2a90b7715f%3Ag%3AXOQAAOSw0oBZ2mXj&_trkparms=pageci%253A8cf39336-ad3e-11e7-9bc6-74dbd1801060%257Cparentrq%253A032fc13e15f0ab13307b7132fffd16cd%257Ciid%253A1
chessspy1 wrote:
Not to get into this too much, but.
"About your sugestion of using a computer to carve this set. I have say this before, there is no such computer in the world, It doesn't exist. It have to be handcarved."
I and a very knowlegable friend who is a computer wiz (own company fixing company computer systems worldwide) looked ito getting knights heads scanned and auto carved. In the opininon of people in this market, I.E. those who actually own digital scanning machines and CAD-CAM manufacturing, we are 20 years from a plug -and -go on accurate auto carving machine.
A knight head can easily be made on a CNC mill or CNC router, and that's been the case for quite a while (since long before you made this post). Watch this video of an eagle head being carved from a solid block of metal on a CNC mill - https://youtu.be/8CSwOebmb0A
The best approach wouldn't be to 3D scan an existing chess piece, because that results in files with a lot of garbage in them, and the resolution of a 3D scan isn't particularly good. The best approach would be to find someone who is skilled with 3D modeling (I have a friend who is very good at that, and built his own CNC router as well), and have him model the knight head from scratch, using good photographs from all sides along with extensive and precise measurements from the original knight (ideally the person creating the 3D model would have the knight in his possession while he's working on the 3D model).
Once you have a good 3D model (such as one created in a recent version of AutoCAD), even someone with a relatively inexpensive hobbyist-level 3D router could make it. On such a machine it would need to be done in two stages, i.e., machine half of the shape of the knight into a block of wood, then flip the block of wood over and machine the other half. The final finish work would have to be done by hand of course.
Here's an example of someone machining a 3D relief carving of a winged Pegasus on a hobbyist-level CNC router - https://youtu.be/dcKq08oLQBw - skip to about the 15 minute mark to see the router finishing. If he wanted to make a free-standing figurine (which is what a chess knight is), he would have to flip the board over and machine out the other side (and of course he'd need a file which contained modeling data for both sides).
Your idea that it will be another 20 years before this can be done was probably the result of miscommunication. For example, you can't simply stick your original Jaques knight into a machine and have it spit out a perfect copy. 3D scanning technology isn't that great at this point in time. But if you take the time and effort to make a really accurate 3D model of the knight from scratch (which is something that only needs to be done one time for each knight design you want to make), then you can spit out as many of them as you want on a CNC mill or router.
MaximRecoil wrote:
chessspy1 wrote:
Not to get into this too much, but.
"About your sugestion of using a computer to carve this set. I have say this before, there is no such computer in the world, It doesn't exist. It have to be handcarved."
I and a very knowlegable friend who is a computer wiz (own company fixing company computer systems worldwide) looked ito getting knights heads scanned and auto carved. In the opininon of people in this market, I.E. those who actually own digital scanning machines and CAD-CAM manufacturing, we are 20 years from a plug -and -go on accurate auto carving machine.
A knight head can easily be made on a CNC mill or CNC router, and that's been the case for quite a while (since long before you made this post). Watch this video of an eagle head being carved from a solid block of metal on a CNC mill - https://youtu.be/8CSwOebmb0A
The best approach wouldn't be to 3D scan an existing chess piece, because that results in files with a lot of garbage in them, and the resolution of a 3D scan isn't particularly good. The best approach would be to find someone who is skilled with 3D modeling (I have a friend who is very good at that, and built his own CNC router as well), and have him model the knight head from scratch, using good photographs from all sides along with extensive and precise measurements from the original knight (ideally the person creating the 3D model would have the knight in his possession while he's working on the 3D model).
Once you have a good 3D model (such as one created in a recent version of AutoCAD), even someone with a relatively inexpensive hobbyist-level 3D router could make it. On such a machine it would need to be done in two stages, i.e., machine half of the shape of the knight into a block of wood, then flip the block of wood over and machine the other half. The final finish work would have to be done by hand of course.
Here's an example of someone machining a 3D relief carving of a winged Pegasus on a hobbyist-level CNC router - https://youtu.be/dcKq08oLQBw - skip to about the 15 minute mark to see the router finishing. If he wanted to make a free-standing figurine (which is what a chess knight is), he would have to flip the board over and machine out the other side (and of course he'd need a file which contained modeling data for both sides).
Your idea that it will be another 20 years before this can be done was probably the result of miscommunication. For example, you can't simply stick your original Jaques knight into a machine and have it spit out a perfect copy. 3D scanning technology isn't that great at this point in time. But if you take the time and effort to make a really accurate 3D model of the knight from scratch (which is something that only needs to be done one time for each knight design you want to make), then you can spit out as many of them as you want on a CNC mill or router.
I am with Chessspy on this one...
The 2 machines tha you show on the video will nto pull out a jakes Horse head...
You think in the second video stuff is as easy as flip it and run the the machine again... then why the guy does not do that? you thin khe does not want to? You think it have never ocourred it to him?
The first video... understnading the limitations... his machine is working with a big chunk of aluminum... not a small piece of wood... Yes his machine can pull out a horse head, but not a stauton design one...
You think the problem is that there is not 3D models of horse heads out there???
Here a free file for you:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1539045
Would be great if you cna actually plug that in a "hobbyist-level 3D router ", flip it over to do the other half, and show us how it is done...
>I am with Chessspy on this one...The 2 machines tha you show on the video will nto pull out a jakes Horse head...
Yes, they absolutely will. The second video shows one making not only a horse head, but the rest of its body and wings too.
>You think in the second video stuff is as easy as flip it and run the the machine again...
"Think"? I KNOW that's how it's done on a 3-axis machine like a CNC router. With a 5-axis machine like that commercial CNC mill in the first video, you wouldn't even have to do it in 2 stages; it could do it all in one stage.
>then why the guy does not do that? you thin khe does not want to? You think it have never ocourred it to him?
What? Because he made a relief carving, not a figurine. You might as well ask why Alessandro Algardi didn't flip this relief carving over and carve out the other side - https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/02/6a/4c026a068b47fa14a3c6b5e4a71e3084.jpg. Is it because he didn't want to? Is it because it didn't occur to him? Maybe it's because it was his intention to make a relief carving to begin with.
>The first video... understnading the limitations... his machine is working with a big chunk of aluminum... not a small piece of wood... Yes his machine can pull out a horse head, but not a stauton design one...
What are you talking about? Do you think a Staunton knight has some sort of magical XYZ coordinates that can't be accessed by a CNC mill or router? By the way, here's a 5-axis CNC mill carving out a small human figurine from wood - https://youtu.be/4H4PTN6Bp2o . Anyone who insists that a Jaques knight (or any other style of chess knight) couldn't be done on such a machine after seeing that is just being intellectually dishonest.
>You think the problem is that there is not 3D models of horse heads out there??? Here a free file for you: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1539045
Again, what are you talking about? That is not a model of a Jaques knight, it is a model of the Selene horse head from the Elgin Marbles. If you feed that into a CNC machine you're going to get something that looks like it, not a Jaques knight. I'll repeat what I said earlier:
"The best approach would be to find someone who is skilled with 3D modeling, and have him model the knight head from scratch, using good photographs from all sides along with extensive and precise measurements from the original knight (ideally the person creating the 3D model would have the knight in his possession while he's working on the 3D model)."
>Would be great if you cna actually plug that in a "hobbyist-level 3D router ", flip it over to do the other half, and show us how it is done...
This is a very simple concept that anyone should be able to understand intuitively. You don't even need a CNC machine to illustrate the concept to yourself. Just lay a board on a table and start carving a knight laying on its side out of it. Of course, you'll only be able to go so far like that, i.e., to the point of a relief carving. To finish it into a free-standing figurine you'd have to flip it over and start carving from the other side. It is no different with a 3-axis CNC machine. You'd just have to make sure you leave attachment points so that the knight stays attached to the board it's being carved from (else it would go flying off the table once it was no longer connected to the board), then you'd cut the attachment points and apply the finishing touches manually (such as finishing small areas that a 3-axis machine couldn't reach, sanding, and polishing).
I tend to agree that carving a knight's head with a CNC machine is possible already. It is NOT 'plug and play' yet by any means.
There are a couple of problems which need addressing, the area under the knight's neck/head which is carved in a rather difficult to reach spot is a place where hand work would need to be done. I do note that there are restrictions to the shapes which are easily made by auto-carving machines.
Polishing and finishing would also perhaps need to be done by hand.
I was talking to Oleg Rakis (a few years ago in Portobello Market) who is regarded by most people (quite rightly IMHO) to be the best chess set carver in the world. He told me that he is much faster to carve a chess figure than any of his workers using copy carvers. So whilst there are good carvers in third world countries who can knock this stuff out the cost benefit to manufacturers is just not there.
close up of knight.
That knight looks perfect!