Ah OK - in that case I'll edit my post above, which is mis-leading.
Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set
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Hm, Ok
Thanks Matt photographs and measurements would be very interesting. You're right I would have wanted to see the set that sold in Diss properly first but it was just too far.
Jul 4, 2018
0
#2967
The metal loop in the lid that slots into the lock looks a bit different to your pic (see above). Here is the lock itself:
What we don't know is how much variation there is between Jaques boxes over the years.
Maybe someone can help?
What we don't know is how much variation there is between Jaques boxes over the years.
Maybe someone can help?
May be this will help a little !
Thanks, that resolves one puzzle. The sides of my box are 10mm thick, the reason I thought they looked thinner appears to be because there's more space between them - my box is bigger than yours by 10mm in height and 20mm in width and depth.
Going on photographs that I have seen there is a lot of variation in locks, hinges and joints, and the pictures in Lighthouse's link suggest that there probably wasn't a constant relationship between the sizes of pieces and their boxes. That's also apparent from Tim Millard's pictures, so I don't know what the answer is. I guess uncertainty is part of the territory, and evidently without provenance that may also extend to stickers and labels - but yours does look handsome and I'm still tempted.
chessspy1 wrote:
The Reg stickers in the saucer in the shop in Portobello Road were from other sets which had passed through the dealer's hands.
I think the point was that the price of a set with a few stickers left was the same as a set with almost all of them. The retail price being the object of the fraud.
The chance of stickers (and labels) not being forged is about nil. There are forgeries of labels on 1950s chisels that are only a hundred dollars or so, the incentive with the Jaques sets is a lot stronger and the antique trade does not have the best history with that kind of thing. I've always wondered about those sets with good condition labels stuck to fairly clean baize. In the 19th century the label was important and the box not so much.
Jul 5, 2018
0
#2971
MacGhriogair wrote:
Thanks, that resolves one puzzle. The sides of my box are 10mm thick, the reason I thought they looked thinner appears to be because there's more space between them - my box is bigger than yours by 10mm in height and 20mm in width and depth.
Going on photographs that I have seen there is a lot of variation in locks, hinges and joints, and the pictures in Lighthouse's link suggest that there probably wasn't a constant relationship between the sizes of pieces and their boxes. That's also apparent from Tim Millard's pictures, so I don't know what the answer is. I guess uncertainty is part of the territory, and evidently without provenance that may also extend to stickers and labels - but yours does look handsome and I'm still tempted.
Looking at the pictures that lighthouse provided tells me that the box is *probably* from the correct era. i also suspect that Jaques back then did the same thing back then that are done today which someone else bade the boxes, that he bought which he then slapped his sticker on. The sticker says that the PIECES are made by Jaques, not the box. Example from today: when i bought that HOS Luxury Collector's Set I got a Red Burl Coffer to store them in. The Coffer is made in China, and everybody and their brother who sells a "Luxury" set has a Red Burl Coffer... made in China. HOS does strive however for the "authentic' in their reproductions. ie: they are -- so far -- the only one who is offering the Pierre {?} chess coffer, as well as the leather ones seen in these pictures. I also tend to agree that in the "antiques" market there are plenty of really good forgeries out there and it is buyer beware. You also need to have an advanced degree to be able to tell the difference between the real thing and the forgery. The pieces are what is important in this case, not the box in which they are stored. The sticker is the easiest thing to forge. In most cases except for the earliest stickers that were hand signed by H. Staunton, the rest of the stickers were facsimile copies of hias signature and then either hand numbered are stamped. The problem with paper stickers is they get stained, ripped, or lost. Finding a genuine Jaques set *with* a still readable label is rare especially if the label was on the BOTTOM of the box rather than the inside of the lid. I think -- love them or hate them -- HOS got it right when they provide BOTH a PAPER Label as well as their engraved Brass Plaque. I may or may not lose the paper label but the brass plaque is well affixed to the inside of the coffer -- made in China that everyone now seems to sell -- but the pieces in the box are clearly HOS.
Truthfully the pieces are to my untrained eye genuine Jaques pieces (dead give away id the Jaques logo on the base of the king); the box *seems* to be from the correct era and is *probably* the real thing. Chances are that the paper sticker either was lost, or worn away. The interior of the box looks newer which mean that whoever had the set probably spent a little money after a number of years to have it re-lined. Remember that the adhesives used in the 1800's was not nearing as good as the adhesives used today. If that is/was the case the sticker may -- if it was still there -- either ripped out, or covered over. Just a guess.
Label or no label that is still a beautiful set.
Azbobcat says “ genuine Jaques pieces ( dead giveaway Id the Jaques logo on the base of the king ) and I for one have always looked for this and accepted it as a mark of authenticity but as Chessspy has pointed out there is at least one set of Jaques stamps in a dealer’s hands, so who knows. By the way, I notice that several signed copies of Sir Alan Fersht’s book on Jaques were recently on offer and may still be on eBay for £25 each.
Jul 5, 2018
0
#2973
One Further Note on the subject of Boxes: again looking at Lighthouse's pictures; there is at least one box that *looks* like it has Ivory pieces that someone in more recent times had retro fitted with Blue velour into more of a modern coffer design to keep the pieces from crashing into each other. Also note in that box there is NO Sticker or Label. also note the condition of the labels INSIDE some of the box and how ratty some of them are. From my reading -- not very in depth to be sure finding a Jaques set with a still legible label seems to be rare. If you look at that one picture of the box with the sliding top that is partially open, if you look closely you can see the baize peeling off. I suspect that was EXACTLY what happened with your box, and the owner had the box re-lined as he (most likely ) took pride in his set. During the re-lining of the lid where the label was most likely was it was torn out.
Hi Greg,
I have seen a good few Jaques sets over the years and even a few with stickers. I never saw any forged stickers AFAIK however if they were well done I guess I wouldn't know them.
Jul 12, 2018
0
#2975
Thought I'd bump this thread. Here's a set currently on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Jaques-London-Broadbent-ebony-Chess-Set-3-5-Kings-1925-35/332710545309?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
This is not the best Jaques set I've ever seen. Which of the pieces do you think are original to the set (i.e. consistent with the Kings)?
Jul 12, 2018
0
#2976
Thanks RCM. I wasn't planning to buy it, I just thought it looked such a shocker that I would share it here hoping to provide some amusement.
I agree with your assessments, those White Knights are not even close to any Jaques design that I'm aware of. One of the Black Knights looked like it might be correct. I thought the picture of the White pieces lined up was quite comical, with the range of different colours on show
I have a real box of chess figures from the Cuba Olympics since 1966 how much does it cost for evaluations.
git those pieces out on a board and lets havvalookatem. The set & box look gorgeous. Tx 4 share.
Please tell me how match this chess from Cuba olimpiada 1966 Ajedres
The Reg stickers in the saucer in the shop in Portobello Road were from other sets which had passed through the dealer's hands.
I think the point was that the price of a set with a few stickers left was the same as a set with almost all of them. The retail price being the object of the fraud.