Software overload

Thanks for all the advice everyone.  I wish I was less confused now, but I feel like I'm more confused than ever.  And that's frustrating, since I've been in software development for over 20 years, and I've never before been this frustrated trying to figure out the point of different software packages.

Since I'd like to know what I'm getting into, I decided to try the free route first.  So based on recommendations here, I went to the website for Houdini -- and found out that this engine has no GUI.  Huh?  Software in 2011 that has no user interface??  That just sounds ridiculous to me.  But there was a link to the Arena website on the Houdini page, so I thought, well, what the hell, I'll go ahead and download a free GUI as well.  So I did.

Maybe it's just the GUI, or maybe I haven't spent enough time trying to figure it out, or maybe my ability to understand new software is diminishing with age, but it looks to me like this is simply a play-chess-against-the-computer software package.  It's very customizable, which is always nice, but I don't really care about that, and I don't want to play against a computer.  What I want is something where I can plug in games that I've played and have a computer tell me where I've made a mistake and why.  I tried plugging a PGN string in from a chess.com game, but was unable to figure out how to get the game analyzed so that I could step through it and see how I was doing at any one point in time, like I can on chess.com with my chess.com games.

So I started thinking, well, maybe I should just buy Chessbase, a lot of people here seem to like it.  And then I read bhandelman's comment above, that Chessbase does not have it's own interface.  WHAT??  ANOTHER piece of chess software that doesn't have an interface?!?  What is up with all of this chess software?  Engines without GUIs, databases without interfaces...  Doesn't somebody publish a decent package that has everything you need to be able to analyze a chess game??

So there's my rant.  Now, in my more rational moments, it DOES sound like ChessBase is what I'm looking for.  But will it really be impossible to use it WITHOUT buying a ChessBase engine to go with it?  I mean, geez, almost $200 for the cheaper product, and I still have to shell out more for something to make it USABLE?

Thanks,

Rich

rmiller1985 - Chessbase Light 2009 or Chessbase 10 or 11 most assuredly has a graphical user interface.  It is used mainly for working on your opening repertoire, preparing against players you are about to face, or searching for particular types of games.  You can start up an engine, add variations and comments to your games, and compare your opening play to other players.  Chessbase comes with a number of engines, or you can download and install a wide range of UCI or Chessbase engines for free.

Fritz 11 or 12 is intended more as a program for playing against, but it does have an auto-annotate feature where you load in a game, and it will add in comments and variations giving its interpretation of where mistakes were made.  I don't really trust its annotations, but a lot of beginners seem to like that it will try to explain what went wrong.  Chessmaster 10 or 11 has a similar auto-annotation feature, and chess.com offers a similar service.

If you are looking for a free database program, SCID is the usual choice.  Arena as you say is for playing against.

I didn't say that ChessBase doesn't have a GUI, I said it doesn't come with an interface for chess engines to analyze, which is what you said your whole point was.  Honestly, if you don't care about gigantic databases to compare your games with and such, all you need to do is buy Fritz 12.  It's $50, will allow you store your games in a ChessBase database (if you do later decide to make the plunge), and it's main purpose is to analyze your games.  If you don't like the engine it comes with because it is weaker, you can download Houdini (the current stronger) and easily use it inside the Fritz GUI.  You don't need anything else, and later on if you decide to buy ChessBase 11 it integrates perfectly.

Arena is nice for being free, but it doesn't have many options as far as annotation, and it does things a little differently.  The focus for the product seems to be engine vs engine matches which doesn't really do the chess world much good in my opinion.

SCID is ok as a database, but very difficult to use in my opinion and its analysis features leave a ton to be desired and are very basic.  Anyone who has used a professional product instead could easily attest to this.

For your stated purpose, Fritz 12 is all you need.  Ignore comments about how it's main purpose is to play against the computer, it is not.  The main purpose is to analyze.  It has plenty of training modes, and you can use any of the ChessBase trainer dvds with it, but the main purpose is to load your games, analyze them, and annotate them.  It's analyzation features are a bit better than Arena in my opinion, and easier to configure.  The main idea is load up your game, then you can either turn it on infinate analysis and go move through move and watch the engine think, or you can set it up to analyze for you and annotate the game.  In this case I would recomend setting it to at least 30 seconds per move.  You have to let it sit for a while, but it does a great job of going through your games and helping to show you where you went wrong and where you missed that mate in 4.

Because chess programs aren't the easiest thing in the world to use, ChessBase did produce 20 or so videos you can find on the product page on their website to figure out how to use it.  If that doesn't help enough I'm sure any questions you ask here will get answered quickly.  The analyse features are really easy to use, I wouldn't expect you to have any issues.

In my opinion, Arena is good for what you said, playing against engines, and letting engines play against each other.

For help with your own games, I much prefer SCID. Maybe Arena can do all the things SCID does, but I just find the latter easier, and more intuitive. (Having said that, I don't think any GUI is REALLY easy, including the expensive ones.)

I think there's so much good free stuff out there that you should only buy a package if you are really sure that it addresses an issue you can't get for free. For me it will probably be just for a better quality DB, although millions of games are available for free too.

Software is the new chess books.

It used to be that when you realized you needed improvement, you'd buy a book that looked like just the thing. Then another and another...

Here's a suggestion: spend the money on beer and just play chess, if possible while drinking the beer. A guaranteed road to improvement!

Thanks very much for the detailed descriptions.  It does, indeed, sound like Fritz 12 would work for me.  And I see it's $10 off at USCF Sales right now.

One more point of confusion:  on Amazon, I see "Fritz 12" and "Fritz Chess, version 12"; the former is $44, the latter is $20.  They seem to be products of different companies.  Are they related at all?

Since I've read and heard many good things about ChessBase, but since I'm reluctant to spend $200 when I'm not sure how much I'll use it, I think I'll go with your suggestion since it integrates so well if I decide to get ChessBase later.

Thanks again,

Rich

The screenshots make them look the same, but I'm not certain.  I own the green one, bought it from USCF Sales as well.

Martin, you can purchase Hiarcs with Sigma for quite a bit of money or download Stockfish for free, although installation is tricky. Both strong programs, I understand.

I have added data from chessbase to Exachess, although thats only possible because I also have chessbase, which sort of defeats the point of Exachess.

I like the Excachess database, but it could use some work with analysis engine control and display controls.

you dont need to pay anything for a data base programe, just download SCID it's a free programe ,if you look on chess video's .com you can find a video by KATAR, on how to use it, allso you can build your skid data base up by going to the week in chess . com and downloading thousand's of grand master games for free,i kid you not

you can't beat scid, it's free check it out.

Perahps too late for the OP, but anyway...

I'm also evaluating some chess engines, just out of curiosity: I often hear friends at the club talknig about Fritz, Rybka, etc. and when last week I heard about the new wonder (Houdini) I decided it was time for me to check what's going on in the chess engines world.

I'm not into serious chess competitions, so I'm not interested (for now) in analyzing or keeping an archive of my games. That's way I was looking for free software only.

After a quick googling around, this is what I have so far:

- Scid vs. PC v4.2

- Houdini v1.5a

- Deep Saros v2.3gs

The first should be a bit less buggy than Scid and has a nice Computer Tournament option (two or more engines playing against each other).

The latter because... it's Italian (but looks pretty strong as well). ;)

And yes, Scid is essentially a GUI while the engines (usually?) don't have a "human" interface. But setting up an engine in Scid is really trivial.

HTH.

Alessandro