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Where can I buy a chess set similar to the one used in Lyons 1990?

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Ronbo710
Ronbo710
Sep 16, 2018
0
#81
Pierre0637 wrote:

Mistery of chavet chess sets probably solved:

- I found a professional web site (for commercial clients, not retail). It dates from quite a while ago, dunno when. It described series 121 as "Pièces polies, double plombage, feutrées, cavaliers monoblocs, têtes fines."  , ie as the genuine article (polished pièces, double lead weighted, felted, one piece knights, tetes fines, not translating that last bit you all know what it means.

- Secondly I downloaded the new Jurabuis catalog and intetestingly page 45: their current competition offering (the modern set) weighted, etc, in the nice box (not the ordinary slide top) is number 153. BUT: the same set, weighted, etc in an ordinary slide top box is number 121/6.

THEREFORE:

I would hypothesize that we shouldn't just be looking for the B210, and that actually series 121 BEFORE the modern sets, was simply their best "tetes fines" set, but in an ordinary box.

If anyone had facts that contradict this hypothesis let me know. I might see if I can get Chavet to sell me the nice box when i have my 121/6 from the 90s at home.

 

If you do call Chavet please tell them to go back to the '90's era Queens. Their new Queen is truly awefull .

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 17, 2018
0
#82

I will but consider this:

- the total staff is less than 10 people,

- the number of chess sets sold per year which I generously previously assumed to be 8000 may be much smaller as chess is probably much  less than 50% of the Jurabuis sales.

=> I don t see them retooling for a much smaller market.

=> if I were them I would create an added workshop in the company and try to have a business like noj where I make exclusive repros for several hundred euros a piece. It would be justified because: the wood would be different, and the repros would be authentic.

=>>  But not even sure that s doable in france in terms of cost of living/ salaries vs for example slovenia. 

Ronbo710
Ronbo710
Sep 17, 2018
0
#83
Pierre0637 wrote:

I will but consider this:

- the total staff is less than 10 people,

- the number of chess sets sold per year which I generously previously assumed to be 8000 may be much smaller as chess is probably much  less than 50% of the Jurabuis sales.

=> I don t see them retooling for a much smaller market.

=> if I were them I would create an added workshop in the company and try to have a business like noj where I make exclusive repros for several hundred euros a piece. It would be justified because: the wood would be different, and the repros would be authentic.

=>>  But not even sure that s doable in france in terms of cost of living/ salaries vs for example slovenia. 

Thanks Pierre. I can assure you if they re-did the '90's version with the World Chess Championship provenance being attached it would be huge. Especially with internet marketing.

QtoQlevel3
QtoQlevel3
Sep 18, 2018
0
#84
Ronbo710 wrote:
Pierre0637 wrote:

I will but consider this:

- the total staff is less than 10 people,

- the number of chess sets sold per year which I generously previously assumed to be 8000 may be much smaller as chess is probably much  less than 50% of the Jurabuis sales.

=> I don t see them retooling for a much smaller market.

=> if I were them I would create an added workshop in the company and try to have a business like noj where I make exclusive repros for several hundred euros a piece. It would be justified because: the wood would be different, and the repros would be authentic.

=>>  But not even sure that s doable in france in terms of cost of living/ salaries vs for example slovenia. 

Thanks Pierre. I can assure you if they re-did the '90's version with the World Chess Championship provenance being attached it would be huge. Especially with internet marketing.!!

Indeed! I would be one of the very first to buy if this Chavet original design ever resurrected by the Chavet toy company. I'd buy 2 sets right away with a matching coffer if offered with the set. I implore you Pierre0637 to do your very best in you correspondence to Chavet to try and convince them to bring back this beautiful set for sales. Much thanks and congratulations on you great acquisitions. 

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 18, 2018
0
#85

Right......

I have bad news. I have managed to order what I needed, but in the midst of the conversation I was given the following bombshell: They have stopped producing Size 6 sets for now (What I ordered came from stock): they weren't selling enough of them. They jokingly added that more people have asked since they stopped, but for now they have stopped.

They didn't seem to be very aware of the repro market that seems to ahve developed around their sets. I have written them a long email (they asked for links to where the repros are) where I included the screenshot of the last Auction that went for 550 EUR in June this year. I have told them I would gladly round up a list of buyers for them if they agreed to do a limited repro, and that if there were enough people I'd put them in touch. I have asked them if they are interested and if yes for how many sets would it be worth their while.

I would like to underline that I have been in touch with the current manager of the firm last year on the phone and by email, that I told him I would pay 600 EUR for an old set if they had one somewhere, and that other people would probably pay that too but nothing came out of it. This is how I ended up not relying on that and searching for a set in france without their help.

I have done all I could, the only thing one could do if that doesn't work is hit them with a list of say 30 buyers (would have to have them listed naturally - and trust them) that would pay a high price (say 300 EUR for ex) for an anthentic repro, and say: That's our bid, where's your offer?

Will keep you in touch but as said earlier, don't hold your breath...

Ronbo710
Ronbo710
Sep 18, 2018
0
#86
Pierre0637 wrote:

Right......

I have bad news. I have managed to order what I needed, but in the midst of the conversation I was given the following bombshell: They have stopped producing Size 6 sets for now (What I ordered came from stock): they weren't selling enough of them. They jokingly added that more people have asked since they stopped, but for now they have stopped.

They didn't seem to be very aware of the repro market that seems to ahve developed around their sets. I have written them a long email (they asked for links to where the repros are) where I included the screenshot of the last Auction that went for 550 EUR in June this year. I have told them I would gladly round up a list of buyers for them if they agreed to do a limited repro, and that if there were enough people I'd put them in touch. I have asked them if they are interested and if yes for how many sets would it be worth their while.

I would like to underline that I have been in touch with the current manager of the firm last year on the phone and by email, that I told him I would pay 600 EUR for an old set if they had one somewhere, and that other people would probably pay that too but nothing came out of it. This is how I ended up not relying on that and searching for a set in france without their help.

I have done all I could, the only thing one could do if that doesn't work is hit them with a list of say 30 buyers (would have to have them listed naturally - and trust them) that would pay a high price (say 300 EUR for ex) for an anthentic repro, and say: That's our bid, where's your offer?

Will keep you in touch but as said earlier, don't hold your breath...

Thanks Pierre! You have definitely done more than anyone to bring back this great design happy.png.  I think it is charming how this company doesn't have a clue about the current craze for their earlier design. 

brother7
brother7
Sep 18, 2018
0
#87

I must admit, I didn't know anything about Chavet sets until this thread. Very informative! I think I will have to add one, even a reproduction, to my collection.

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 18, 2018
0
#88

I have been wondering how many of these sets exist and how many change hands. I will show you my estimates / sources and you will correct me.

 

1. Chavet sold about 200000 sets in 1987, but then only sold about 20000 in 2007. Source: Alain Chavet himself on french TV in 2007. This fits with my previous estimate of 8000 sets in 2017.

 

The sets we are interested in were produced between 1987 and probably 2002, although I am not certain when production of the old style ceased. The rate of production decrease has been about -10% a year. This means the average number of sets produced for the 15 years we are interested in was about 90000 sets a year. So we are looking at 1350000 sets of interest.

 

2.  There are 6 sizes But in terms of distribution of sales, only very dedicated / tournament style players would buy these. I would hazard a guess that half the sets are bought by very casual players ( hell I bought a smallish chavet in 2002 and touched less than once a year until last year) and the other half by serious players. In my view only a fraction of the serious players will buy the double weighted size 6. Say 5% of the players. Hence I am picking 3% as the percentage of sets that were size 6.

 

That gets me to 40500 sets of our style and size ever produced. It can be 10000 or 80000 in my view but not say 5000

 

3. In the last 15 years since production ceased a small percentage was broken / lost every year. Maybe some were lost / broken much earlier. I'm going to say 2% linearly got lost/ broken every year. Maybe it was just 1 but started earlier. I am saying 30% of the sets have disappeared.

 

There could be 28000 sets left.

 

3. I would assume these sets change hands for in 20-25 year cycles as people pass them on or sell them. So let's say 20 years which means 5% change hands every year, but half are given half are sold (I am saying half because I have no idea of the proportion). So thats 2.5% of sets sold every year.

 

There should be 700 sets for sale each year. That should be enough to feed the collectors at reasonable prices. Again it could be just 100 sets but I don t think it s only 50 or I am missing something. You tell me.

 

So either:

 

-less were produced

 

-more got lost/broken

 

-A much smaller proportion of people sell their sets

 

-Maybe the buyers are on the internet and abroad, and the sellers are people in france who play chess and don't browse as much :-) as they are older now (remember they bought their expensive sets 20 years ago)

 

Which is it?

 

-

Ronbo710
Ronbo710
Sep 18, 2018
0
#89
Pierre0637 wrote:

I have been wondering how many of these sets exist and how many change hands. I will show you my estimates / sources and you will correct me.

 

1. Chavet sold about 200000 sets in 1987, but then only sold about 20000 in 2007. Source: Alain Chavet himself on french TV in 2007. This fits with my previous estimate of 8000 sets in 2017.

 

The sets we are interested in were produced between 1987 and probably 2002, although I am not certain when production of the old style ceased. The rate of production decrease has been about -10% a year. This means the average number of sets produced for the 15 years we are interested in was about 90000 sets a year. So we are looking at 1350000 sets of interest.

 

2.  There are 6 sizes But in terms of distribution of sales, only very dedicated / tournament style players would buy these. I would hazard a guess that half the sets are bought by very casual players ( hell I bought a smallish chavet in 2002 and touched less than once a year until last year) and the other half by serious players. In my view only a fraction of the serious players will buy the double weighted size 6. Say 5% of the players. Hence I am picking 3% as the percentage of sets that were size 6.

 

That gets me to 40500 sets of our style and size ever produced. It can be 10000 or 80000 in my view but not say 5000

 

3. In the last 15 years since production ceased a small percentage was broken / lost every year. Maybe some were lost / broken much earlier. I'm going to say 2% linearly got lost/ broken every year. Maybe it was just 1 but started earlier. I am saying 30% of the sets have disappeared.

 

There could be 28000 sets left.

 

3. I would assume these sets change hands for in 20-25 year cycles as people pass them on or sell them. So let's say 20 years which means 5% change hands every year, but half are given half are sold (I am saying half because I have no idea of the proportion). So thats 2.5% of sets sold every year.

 

There should be 700 sets for sale each year. That should be enough to feed the collectors at reasonable prices. Again it could be just 100 sets but I don t think it s only 50 or I am missing something. You tell me.

 

So either:

 

-less were produced

 

-more got lost/broken

 

-A much smaller proportion of people sell their sets

 

-Maybe the buyers are on the internet and abroad, and the sellers are people in france who play chess and don't browse as much :-) as they are older now (remember they bought their expensive sets 20 years ago)

 

Which is it?

 

-

Interesting statistics. I bought a vintage ebony stain and natural version in size '6' from a friend in Belgium who just wanted enough to buy a newer wood set. He had it for 20 years. It has a great patina and I have been very carefully replacing the felt as the original is worn out.  nullnullnull

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 18, 2018
0
#90

Love that honey colour on the whites. It does look surprisingly new and well cared for, with just the right patina. Do you or any members have tips to care for / restoring ebony stain?

FrankHelwig
FrankHelwig
Sep 19, 2018
0
#91
Pierre0637 wrote:

Chavet sold about 200000 sets in 1987,

 
 

I have no facts to bring to this discussion, but that number seems unreasonably high. That amounts to a production output of over 769 hand-turned sets per day. 

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 19, 2018
0
#92

I agree but that is what Alain Chavet says on french TV in October 2007:

 

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x36i31&ved=2ahUKEwiGkreBvMfdAhXiJsAKHX2OCdIQwqsBMAB6BAgJEAU&usg=AOvVaw3cf0rGMM37X5bKn2nA5xQO&cshid=1537373913452

 

 

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 19, 2018
0
#93

He says the company was selling 200k 20 years ago and 20k sets now. Because of Plastic sets.

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 19, 2018
0
#94

You should all watch the Video it's fun to see how the pieces are made.

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Sep 19, 2018
0
#95

Btw Frank, I am just putting these number forward because the price and liquidity of the sets do not make much sense to me, given the theoretical stock in existence, and I am a trader by profession. We are missing something.

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Oct 13, 2018
0
#96

I said I would post pictures of the set once I had it at home but unfortunately got busy on other things. A real satisfaction has been that my 8 year old son likes to play with it.

So:

null

The Box numbered 121/6 came in the ordinary box. 

I also had previously bought a size 6 board from Sunrise in Poland that had the light edges. This was a cheaper option than having a board made but the edges are a bit too light compared to the chavet that was used in 1990.

null

 

I then purchased a nice box from Chavet for a size 6 set. I wasn't sure they'd sell me just the box and they said they had stopped production of size 6 for now, but after a bit of discussion they found out they had one or two boxes left. Needless to say I was thrilled. It wasn't going to be a B210, but still the same pieces and a nice box.

 

nullnull

I felt the need to reassure myself (apart from visual checking and I weighted the pieces, checking against Ronbo's weights in oz and everything was alright.

 

And finally the set in its full glory

null

 

null

Ronbo710
Ronbo710
Oct 13, 2018
0
#97

Very cool . I didn't know Chavet made a magnetic set wink.png  .

FrankHelwig
FrankHelwig
Oct 13, 2018
0
#98
Ronbo710 wrote:

Very cool . I didn't know Chavet made a magnetic set   .

LOL

Pierre0637
Pierre0637
Oct 14, 2018
0
#99

It's called the "space set" ;-)

quadibloc
quadibloc
Oct 14, 2018
0
#100

The House of Staunton link doesn't work for me, but Chess Bazaar seems to have one:

https://www.chessbazaar.com/reproduced-90s-french-chavet-championship-tournament-chess-set-in-bud-rose-wood-boxwood-3-89-king.html