Transition from middlegame game to endgame. - Chess Forums

ABC_of_EVERYTHING

Nov 24, 2019

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#1

What is the best time or strategy for transition from middlegame to endgame? Help.

kindaspongey

Nov 25, 2019

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#2

"... I like [Shereshevsky's 'Endgame Strategy'] a lot, but it has more to do with transitions from the middlegame than with endings themselves." - IM John Watson (2000)
http://theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/endings-endings-endings

https://www.chess.com/article/view/quotendgame-strategyquot-by-mikhail-shereshevsky
"... The second part of [The Shereshevsky Method] is a concentrated version of Endgame Strategy, ..."
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9056.pdf

https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/mikhail-shereshevsky/

Secrets of Chess Endgame Strategy

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708092932/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review550.pdf

www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Secrets_of_Chess_Endgame_Strategy.pdf

ABC_of_EVERYTHING

Nov 25, 2019

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#3

thanks, kindaspongey.

ABC_of_EVERYTHING

Dec 11, 2019

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#4

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique. My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens and other important pieces while going to endgame. How to change that perceptive and make it a skill based exchange rather than luck and gamble.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#5

Did you try either of those books? Was it no help at all?

"Making the right exchanges" - a chapter from Secrets of Chess Endgame Strategy

drmrboss

Dec 11, 2019

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#6

The general rules before going to endgames.

1. Exchange pieces if you have advantage. ( You must have strong endgame knowledge. e.g one extra pawn in same side of the board is not advantage in endgame, it is usually draw)

2. Keep pieces in middle game and create a thread if you are losing.

In this game, I was a piece down but keep create threads in middle game.

Toldsted

Dec 11, 2019

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#7

Study more endgames. Especially pawn endgames. They are very complicated even for masters. First step in endgames is to judge if the pawn endgame is favorable or not. Then you know if you want to exchange the last pieces or not. Then move on to rook endgames.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#8

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

… ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens

Spoken like a beginner. lol

I suspect that many have trouble with that sort of issue. Perhaps that is the reason for a chapter like "Making the right exchanges" in Secrets of Chess Endgame Strategy.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#9

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique.

Spoken like a very strong grandmaster.

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens

Spoken like a beginner. lol

I suspect that many have trouble with that sort of issue. Perhaps that is the reason for a chapter like "Making the right exchanges" in Secrets of Chess Endgame Strategy.

Well sure, it's a good question, and I like to think of every exchange as a mini-transition. But saying this right after claiming professional (or beyond) level expertise is hilarious. I mean, the guy says he knows almost every theoretical endgame position, but he's probably never even opened an endgame book. ...

It seems to me that your quarrel is with the "almost all" sentence instead of the "exchanging" sentence (a good question as you indicate). The "almost all" sentence does indeed sound like a beginner misperception, but not, in my opinion, something to react to with hilarity. I suspect it is quite common for near beginners to be unaware of the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#10

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

... it's also common for a person to react in a less-than-civil way when they read an outlandish claim regardless of whether the claimant's ignorance is justified.

Perhaps worthwhile to ponder whether or not such a reaction is really a good idea.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#11

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

... sometimes I'm a jerk. Either way it's a conscious choice, so you don't have to worry about whether or not I've considered my actions.

If the OP calls me an a**hole I'll either apologize and be nice, or leave him alone. That's how life works. ...

Some of us think third-party reactions can be part of how life works - providing the victim with some indication of the variety of attitudes to such behavior.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#12

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

... and sometimes I'm a jerk. ... I'm not going to treat everyone with kid gloves ...

Does it require "kid gloves" to avoid lol-ing at someone without clear explanation?

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#13

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique.

Spoken like a very strong grandmaster.

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens

Spoken like a beginner. lol

... and sometimes I'm a jerk. ... I'm not going to treat everyone with kid gloves …

Does it require "kid gloves" to avoid lol-ing at someone without clear explanation?

I gave an explanation. The first quote was something only a professional would say, and the 2nd was something only a beginner would say.

Did your post say anything about the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied?

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#14

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique.

Spoken like a very strong grandmaster.

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens

Spoken like a beginner. lol

... and sometimes I'm a jerk. ... I'm not going to treat everyone with kid gloves …

Does it require "kid gloves" to avoid lol-ing at someone without clear explanation?

I gave an explanation. The first quote was something only a professional would say, and the 2nd was something only a beginner would say.

Did your post say anything about the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied?

… OP just needs common sense and google. I don't know how many theoretical endgame positions there are, but I have books like Nunn's pawnless, Dvoretsky's, and Shereshevsky's, and FCE. The endgame used to be my favorite phase of the game. I have a general idea about the immense amount of endgames I don't know. So you can imagine why I'd laugh.

It might seem like "common sense" to google about the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied, but is one likely to think about googling the number if one doesn't know about the number and one is reading a note that says nothing about the number? You can laugh (apparently at someone's uncertainty about exchanging), but others can point out that "kid gloves" is not really the only alternative to a "sometimes I'm a jerk" attitude.

kindaspongey

Dec 11, 2019

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#15

NM ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique. My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens and other important pieces while going to endgame. ...

The guy says he knows almost all the theoretical positions. Sounds pretty comprehensive to me. And if his knowledge is so great and his technique so good, why should it be "gambling" to trade queens?

One possible explanation is that ABC_of_EVERYTHING has a beginner's lack of awareness of the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied. Another possibility is that ABC_of_EVERYTHING was careless with language and really meant to indicate knowledge of almost all of the basic theoretical positions in some Indian endgame book. Shereshevsky wrote his famous book because it is possible to have a fair amount of endgame knowledge while still having trouble with the transition from the middlegame to the endgame.

kindaspongey

Dec 12, 2019

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#16

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote:

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique.

Spoken like a very strong grandmaster.

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens

Spoken like a beginner. lol

... and sometimes I'm a jerk. ... I'm not going to treat everyone with kid gloves …

Does it require "kid gloves" to avoid lol-ing at someone without clear explanation?

I gave an explanation. The first quote was something only a professional would say, and the 2nd was something only a beginner would say.

Did your post say anything about the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied?

… OP just needs common sense and google. I don't know how many theoretical endgame positions there are, but I have books like Nunn's pawnless, Dvoretsky's, and Shereshevsky's, and FCE. The endgame used to be my favorite phase of the game. I have a general idea about the immense amount of endgames I don't know. So you can imagine why I'd laugh.

It might seem like "common sense" to google about the number of theoretical endgame positions that can be studied, but is one likely to think about googling the number if one doesn't know about the number and one is reading a note that says nothing about the number? You can laugh (apparently at someone's uncertainty about exchanging), but others can point out that "kid gloves" is not really the only alternative to a "sometimes I'm a jerk" attitude.

Only someone with no common sense would try to google "number of theoretical endgames." Someone with common sense might google something like "chess endgame book" and notice there are more than a few books, each having more than a few pages. Yes, I can (and did) laugh. Not about his uncertainty, but about his ridiculous boast. ....

As far as I can see, your post did not suggest googling an endgame book or indicate a ridiculous boast. You put lol after his sentence about uncertainty concerning exchanges.

kindaspongey

Dec 13, 2019

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#17

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

kindaspongey wrote: ...

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique.

Spoken like a very strong grandmaster.

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens

Spoken like a beginner.

lol

... As far as I can see, your post did not suggest googling an endgame book or indicate a ridiculous boast. You put lol after his sentence about uncertainty concerning exchanges.

Now you're really stretching. ...

See above.

catmaster0

Dec 13, 2019

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#18

ABC_of_EVERYTHING wrote:

I know almost all the theoretical endgame position and know how to play it. I have good endgame technique. My problem starts when i feel like i am doing gambling in exchanging queens and other important pieces while going to endgame. How to change that perceptive and make it a skill based exchange rather than luck and gamble.

I think we eventually just come to the point that they feel comfortable with the end game of their play level but struggle with the act of getting there in an even to favorable enough position to make use of it as much as they'd like. At this point, what level of endgame understanding they actually have/realize they have is really not such a big deal to have dominated the thread. What they want to know is how to make it through the midgame, ideally with exchanges that accelerate through the position to get them to their more comfortable later-game stage at their level rather than stay in the mid-game looking for more advantages.