1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd5 5. cxd5 d6 6. e4 g6 7. f4 Bg7 8. Bb5+ Nfd7 9. a4 O-O 10. Nf3

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rychessmaster1
How to play this position as black?
Trexler3241

 

Trexler3241

Maybe try to push the f-pawn to retain the center?

KeSetoKaiba

Here is the position for everyone else. 

KeSetoKaiba

I haven't ever gotten in this position myself, but the moves and structure reminds me of the King's Indian 4 pawns attack. I would guess that many motifs there also apply here and additionally, that Bishop on g7 looks extremely strong for Black, so perhaps some motifs would revolve around pressure down White's Queenside (reminiscent to the Benko Gambit Fully accepted lines). Luckily, for Black - I don't think White's King will ever have a safe home other than staying in the center. If I was Black, then I would try to activate my dormant Queenside pieces first and then perhaps play in similar style to the mentioned Benko-lines where Black puts pressure on White's Queenside; however, like I said, this is not a position I have ever gotten into as Black (against 1.d4, I usually play the Slav lines. If I choose to play ...Nf6 in response to 1.d4, then I usually get a Nimzo-Indian or some kind of Queen's Indian setup, so I seldom get Benoni lines as Black)

Trexler3241
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Here is the position for everyone else. 

why do you have to post the position again

KeSetoKaiba
Trexler3241 wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Here is the position for everyone else. 

why do you have to post the position again

Because I can follow the notation fairly easily, but not everyone can; posting a diagram helps them and even if you are good with notation, I think it just looks better aesthetically as a diagram.

Trexler3241
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Trexler3241 wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Here is the position for everyone else. 

why do you have to post the position again

Because I can follow the notation fairly easily, but not everyone can; posting a diagram helps them and even if you are good with notation, I think it just looks better aesthetically as a diagram.

The thing you posted is exactly comment #2 with more text. It IS a diagram.

DrSpudnik

The Ben-oni is not for the faint of heart.

Ghost_Horse0

Sometimes I play the benoni accidentally in blitz when I premove something dumb.

And I almost always lose because it's a horrible position tongue.png

b5 and f5 are the pawn breaks, and if you can't do that, then find a way to sacrifice something and hope for the best.

If you want to know how to play it beyond that, look at some GM games.

Ghost_Horse0

Even in Pfren's game, lets say after 22...c4+ I wouldn't feel like my b and c pawns are dangerous. It seems like white may have let them become passers on purpose to get a big attack... which would have scared me as black in a real game. 31...Rxf1, wow, laughing in the face of danger.

The benoni is truly an opening for people who like to be slightly worse all game, then at the end, after playing for hours and they're tired, they force themselves to calculate a lot of difficult lines. Sounds masochistic to me.

Ghost_Horse0
rychessmaster1 wrote:
Ghost_Horse0 wrote:

Even in Pfren's game, lets say after 22...c4+ I wouldn't feel like my b and c pawns are dangerous. It seems like white may have let them become passers on purpose to get a big attack... which would have scared me as black in a real game. 31...Rxf1, wow, laughing in the face of danger.

The benoni is truly an opening for people who like to be slightly worse all game, then at the end, after playing for hours and they're tired, they force themselves to calculate a lot of difficult lines. Sounds masochistic to me.

I beat an NM in this line(except again, I played 10.. a6) I didn’t really look at the theory until after game 2 with the NM(he slaughtered me) now I’m likely going to play the NM a third time with 10.. Na6 if I get black again

Ok, but it's not any less weird to me.

---

One master gave the advice that if your openings routinely give you horrible positions, but you have good results, then keep playing them tongue.png

If it's something you enjoy and win with, then go ahead and keep playing it... but I still wont understand it, and I'll always be happy as white to face a benoni.

Chessflyfisher

This is the Taimanov line. It is, according to some folks, a borderline refutation of the Modern Benoni. Black often delays playing ...c5 right away. The strategy is to wait and see if White plays Nf3 before the f-pawn is advanced to f4. Then, ...c5 is played. Of course, with this strategy, Black may be "forced" to play either a Nimzo-Indian or Queen`s Gambit Declined set up. This line is so strong, some Grandmasters have just simply given up on it. Note also that 8...Nfd7 is practically forced.

congrandolor

«Benoni means son of sorrow..., I don't wonder why»- Grischuk

Ghost_Horse0
rychessmaster1 wrote:

Thoughts?

There's a little bit of a different move order, but the main deviation is in one game he captured on c4 and the other he didn't.

So I guess he knows now that 14.Bc2 is correct, so it's good you're not going to repeat that line.

As for the Na6 line, I see a few of them ending at move 14 with e.g. an engine eval, which is fine... and maybe you understand those middlegames, but I don't tongue.png I would use chessbase or chessgames.com to pull ~50 games and play over them all at a quick pace (like 5-10 minutes a game) to see some of the standard ideas and tactics.

With your experience maybe you wouldn't need to do that, but I usually find it useful.

Clavius

 

Ghost_Horse0

I was looking at your Fritz line with SF10 yesterday. It hated it for a while, but at high depth it calmed down and went around 0.4 or 0.5

 

Personally I like to play positions like this in about half my games (meaning positions the engine hates at first). For example the benko gambit. One line in particular it has at something like +1 until you show it the theory and it goes oh, my bad, 0.3 haha.

As long as you understand the middlegame ideas I think it's fine. It probably also makes it harder for your opponent to prepare, if they trust the engine too much.

Although I guess the benoni has a worse reputation than the bekno. I dunno. Up to you.

KeSetoKaiba
rychessmaster1 wrote:
I thank Pfren, Ghost_Horse0, and KeSetoKaiba for helping me. I drew the NM in game 3

Sometimes those draws against higher rated opponent's often feel like a win wink.png Congratulations on the game. 

On a side note, I am just curious: What are some of the higher rated players that you have ever won or drawn against OTB? I ask since your rating is quite a bit higher than mine currently, so I was just curious. OTB I can only recall winning against players circa 1950 or 2000 rating occasionally, so I was just wondering what rating opponents were some of your best games? 

KeSetoKaiba
rychessmaster1 wrote:
My highest rated win is against a 2300
My highest rated draw is also against a 2300

Nice happy.png

DrSpudnik
rychessmaster1 wrote:
StockFish hates this line... should I trust it?

Trust what? The line or stockfish?