1. d4 Nf6 2. c4?!

you did a few great moves, but then missed the same thematic pawn push that was needed.

I will put up some more moves soon.

ps, I applaud you for bringing this up... youre asking the right questions. a few guys I know that are 1500+ dont even get it which hurts their openings 

You again unnecessarily block blacks c-pawn with Nc6. Play 6... c5! 7. Bf4 Nc6 and white cannot so easily play this Ne5 + f4 plan.

Did you see 9. f4 Nxd4?  Looks to me like black can just take the pawn unless I've overlooked something.

also if you press the kings pawn up one, then it will protect both forwarded pawns with one move

 I noticed that a while later, whoops! Perhaps to avoid this would be not to obstruct the queen with the bishop. I knew I had missed something. . .

Another argument is that White wants to play Nc3 without blocking his c-pawn.

Basically, the way I see it, the sooner you play c4, the sooner you can develop your knight to c3, which is extremely comfortable behind the pawn, influencing the centre. Obviously you can't do it the other way around without moving the knight twice in the opening, which isn't always bad, but shouldn't be your initial plan really. Sure, you can do a waiting move, and you can get some interesting variations with Nc3 first, but c4 is much more flexible - doing Nc3 first limits your options.

I used Chessmaster to have a look at the position I came up with in the last post with a position. I set up the position, and set it to 'Chessmaster' vs 'Chessmaster', so the game would be completely balanced. Above is the game.

hi avk996. Intriuing question (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4) , but in my mind with a very simple answer... Be practical, and when that doesn't help, try to figure out why.... If you like 2.c4, play it.... If you don't, do not play it, try to find something else.

Sometimes chessmoves are clear better or worse than other moves, and sometimes it is just matter of opinion. You could of course trust it when thousands of people play just 2.c4, but it is up to you. Play it if you feel for it. It is an OK move, but there are options!

Have a splendid chess-day!

I don't mind 5...h6 at all. Why not preserve the bishop in case of Nh4?

Let's not get crazy here, saying that any aggressive move is bad lol. The type of space edge white gets with 2 c4 is the kind that is nice to have but also hard to undermine, that is if white plays with care and depending on what other pawn moves white makes. The c pawn movement is one of the only reasons why d4 is liked by grandmasters. Otherwise without that resource it would be hard to get an advantage, even though there are openings without  2 c4 of course. Without c4 black could just play ...d5, get a solid base in the center, develop and have no problems to overcome for equality, in most cases. When there is pressure on the center black has less options and is put on the defensive.

I never said any aggressive move is bad. Anyway, I also have trouble understanding the English Opening (1. c4) and the Sicilian Defense. I just don't get the idea of the c-pawn advance.

This discussion between Estragon and Marvellosity reminds me of a funny episode. I once ran into a young teenager who was taking lessons from a coach I found terrible...

The boy showed me one of his games as black starting 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5. At this point the boy told me that his coach had scolded him for his move and recommended 3...e6 instead, without any explanation. I tried to explain him that Bf5 was a nice and natural move, and that it wasn't bad, or at least not worse than anything else on the board, but the boy wouldn't listen and just repeat that his coach said 3...e6 was the move to play.

I felt very sorry for him, so I proposed to get a second opinion from a creditable IM playing in the tournament. The boy said ok, so we go and ask the puzzled professional if after white's third move he thought 3...e6 or 3...Bf5 was the better reply. I was very surprised when he answered : "I can't really tell. At this stage of the game, I think both are quite playable"

I guess everybody is entitled his own opinion on these matters

For the record, my preference is 3...Bf5 and 5...h6

But in many similar types of opening White DOES take the time to play Nh4 and gain the bishop pair. And ...h6 is not an uncommon move in this type of structure to preserve the bishop, which is situated on a very handy diagonal. So what if the pawns are on the same colour squares? The bishop is outside the pawn chain. More important still is that the bishop on that diagonal prevents White deploying HIS bishop on the most dangerous diagonal - b1-h7 - without being opposed.

Anyway, I guess it's a matter of taste, but I wouldn't be saying "why ...h6?"

Actually I think the idea behind 2. c4 is more to take control over the e4-square than over the d5-square.

Just like in 1. e4-openings, white usually aims for a pawn center with two pawns abreast on d4 and e4. In any case this is his best try for an opening advantage. If he can get this pawn center, it will give him a space advantage and with it attacking chances.

So why does white move 2. c4 ? Why not immediately try to take control over e4 with moves like Nc3 or f3 ? Because against all other moves, black can stop white from moving 3. e4, simply by playing 2. ..d5. And while 2. ..d5 is simply a useful move for black, 2. Nc3 and 2. f3 have drawbacks (the former blocks the c-pawn, whose advance is often a source of (counter)play for white, and the latter takes away the possibility of moving a knight to f3 as well as somewhat weakening the kingside).

Therefore, white first attempts to control d5, or at least puts pressure on the d5-square, so the e4-square will more easily fall into his hands.

You certainly shouldn't underestimate the difference between having a knight on c3, blocking a pawn on c2 and having a knight on c3 behind a pawn on c4. The latter is much better. As a concrete example, in the lines you gave, having the pawn on c4 pretty much would stop black from playing ..c5 at some point, since then white has the option of giving black an isolated queen pawn with cxd5 exd5 (note that taking back with a piece would probably release control over the e4-square) dxc5, which can be very hard to defend (although it is often also a source of dynamic play).

I would like to add to comments given by marvellosity above that the signifigance of development advantage in this type of closed position is not always that great. Things would be completely different in an open position where couple of lost tempos are often enough to give opponent near decisive advantage. Also, it doesn't seem realistic for white to quickly open up the position.

To me both 5... h6 and 5... c5 seem like perfectly fine moves. 5... Nbd7 I personally like much less as black would much rather have his knight active in c6 after c5. However, this is just my preference and I have no doubt 5... Nbd7 can also be played.

I think whether or not to play ...h6 is a matter of taste as well. Sometimes it can be justified, but in any case I wouldn't be worried about white wasting time with Nh4 in that position, as that f3 knight controlled some key squares so it decentralizes and wastes time. But then again the two bishops is certainly something you can nurture over time too, but if white played like that being down the two bishops would be black's only problem, and it's not even clear if being down the two bishops has to be a problem there.

Perhaps jemptymethod, but personally I wouldn't want to change my moves just because I'm afraid of an inferior (could we agree on that?) though playable response. Nf3 does take away flexiblity a tiny bit from c4 lines, as sometimes the knight will want to go to e2 depending on the opening.

white almost always seeks to play both e4 and d4 in the opening game. after d4, if black does not make a claim to e4, then white will instantly push e4. if black plays one of the indian defences, white wants to put pressure on d5 before moving Nc3, allowing e4. remember that after 1. d4 Nf6 , 2. Nc3 is very well met by ...d5, preventing e4 and equalizing development and center control fairly well for black. imo, blocking the c pawn after Nf6 is suicidal for white