1. e4 d5

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pwrgmrguard

So, I learned classic openings and studied tactics through middle school. In high school I played alot against very good people, but the real classes and training dropped to nothing.  I have forgotten 100% of the classics and tactics I learned, and relied on my strong instinctual play to carry me through, which it has, to a 1200-1300 rating.

As white, I am totally lost against d5.

CoranMoran

Since we're only in the first couple of moves of the Scandanavian Defense, any opening book will be able to give you the basic ideas at this point.

1. e4 d5
2. exd5

if 2 ... Qxd5,
then 3. Nc3 and you are playing with a free tempo.

if 2 ... Nf6, 
then 3. Bb5+ Bd7, 4. Bc4 is my favorite line.
(Resist the erronous tempation to hold onto the pawn with the weak 3. c4)


I have played the Scandanavian as Black for several years.
I like the fact that Black's game is free and open as opposed to cramped and defensive like so many other options.
However, like all openings, White should have the advantage early on if he knows the basic ideas.

--CM

Tricklev

3. c4 is not an error, it will either turn into a Panov-Botvinnik or a Icelandic gambit, the icelandig gambit is a bit suspect from the black ide, and the Panov-botvinnik is hardly bad for white.


However, if black responds with 3... c6, you do not take the pawn, that would be an error.

Shivsky

With perfect play white has a small advantage in all openings

Yup, +0.30 of a pawn according to most computer evaluations :)

Game theory states that you can't "magically" improve the position's evaluation on your move, regardless of how much theory you booked up.

You can only create enough problems for your opponent so that he makes his position worse by not playing accurate moves  ... and then find the moves that continue to keep the position in that "worsened" state. 

odessian

First of all this position is equal, Center Counter is a very solid opening. Second, why didn't you look at 6... Bg4?

panandh

When I play with black I dont play Bf5. Rather I block the bishop movement by e6. That gives a solid positioning. The drawback is the bishop will not able to do anything in middle game.

Natalia_Pogonina

1.e4 d5 2.ed Qd5 3.Nc3 Qd6 is the most trendy line these days. Sergey Tiviakov is the #1 expert in it. However, my coach likes to say: "The only reason why the Scandinavian hasn't been refuted yet is that it is so bad that no decent player regularly employs it". Laughing

odessian

I am pretty sure I am not a decent player and Scandinavian was advise to me by my coach when he saw me losing badly in French. I was rated 1050 back then. he said, that French at that point was too difficult for me to play (which i agree) and that we needed some quick fixes for me. So he advised me to look at Scandinavian. I studied for some time and the more i played it the more i liked it. First test came when i tried it against GM Edgar Mednis, the opening worked fine and i lost when we reached the endgame. Bottom line is, I am ready to prove that Scandinavian is sound

- Conzipe in your example, after b4 white is not better :). After Qa4 I can simple take the night B:f3 and play Nd7

odessian

yeap, in Center counter you are giving up bishop pair, so what? White has no attack whatsoever

Shivsky
Fiveofswords wrote:

these scandinavian lines 1 e4 d5 2 ed Qxd5 tend to resemple an alapin sicilian (or visa versa perhaps) where black has played an early d5. in fact, since I play the alapin vs the sicilian i tend to encourage that similarity by playing 3. d4. now black's most testing response, 3...e5 is fine for white (and dangerous for black) if he knows how to approach it, 3...c5 allows a direct alapin transposition with 4 c3, and against other moves white can conider plans involving either c4 or nc3 depending on how black commits his pieces.


Very nice observation ... I play both the Alapin as well as the Scandi. so this is useful! :)

Sceadungen

For a novice player the Scandinavian Defence is way better than the Sicilian, you will only start to get found out above 2300 ELO

odessian

Conzipe that position is something i pray to achieve and I am willing to play it against anyone, any GM or IM

AtahanT

The scandi has never impressed me at all. I also do not understand why people as white play 3.Nc3 instead of 3.Nf3. The latter is just as popular in my database and imo it gives white more central control because he can push d4 AND c4 because he hasnt blocked the c pawn. Who cares if you chase away the queen on move 3? She is going to have to move anyway with loss of tempo in the 3.Nf3 line aswell.

AtahanT
RainbowRising wrote:

Nf3 is met by Bg4 which is unpleasant


No, not really.

 

 

Also: 3.Nf3 scores better in the database.
AtahanT
RainbowRising wrote:

oh before d4 , never thought about that


Yeah, and weird thing is that this line seems to be totally unknown eventhough the databases don't suggest it is unknown because it is as popular as 3.Nc3. I've tried both and I find that black struggles more in the 3.Nf3 lines (maybe because his repetoire book doesn't mention of this line?).

kevinjin

In the center counter, I feel the most uncomfortable line playing as white is 2... Nf6. d4 followed by normal developing. White doesn't have lots of problems but the position is relative equal. I think Qxd5 is least of my problems and I like to continue with d4, Nf3, Bd2, Bc4. e.g.

AtahanT
RainbowRising wrote:

Fancy sharing those lines witn me ;) ?


The thing is, and the reason why this great line is unknown, is that there are no books on it really. I've looked everywhere. I've only come across it by chance in a dvd with nigel davies. So what I did is that I kinda built my own lines just by looking at GM games after 3.Nf3. I don't play e4 anymore so my old lines are prolly in my old cpt files somewhere. I'd advice you to make your own lines just like I did instead of trusting my lines. They might have errors in them. Who knows.

CoranMoran
Adamperfection wrote:
RainbowRising wrote:
Conzipe wrote:
CoranMoran wrote:


However, like all openings, White should have the advantage early on if he knows the basic ideas.

--CM


 This might be true for openings like the scandinavian and the alekhines. However in most main line openings it's actually very hard for white to prove anything. Najdorf is a pretty good example.


With perfect play white has a small advantage in all openings


Well apparently that hasn't been found in the Najdorf yet, because it seems black is getting all the advantage.


 "Obtaining a small advantage in the opening" does not mean that White will be able to build an insurmountable attack that will inevitably break through Black's defenses.
It simply means that White will has a small advantage of some sort throughout the opening and early middle game phases.

This advantage often lies in the form of space, positioning, or initiative.

 

The Naijdorf is certainly a double-edged defense for Black.
But White's early advantages can not be denied.
His space advantages in the center and King-side give him the initiative for a while.

 

So the point remains:

While the advantages that White gets out of every opening may not lead to victory, they are still always present with proper play.

 

--cm

 

Krumba

People please...

why do you keep arguing with Conzipe?

face it, he is right.

odessian

He is right about what??