1.e4 f5 : me and my oversized ego vs all of you

I never claimed it would prove anything. I made the hasty claim that I could beat best play after 1.e4 f5, I wanted to find out if it was true, and it is more fun to do so via forums. By no means it would imply that I am better than computers, or better than the players here.

It is also possible that "best play" by computer standards will lead Black into a hopeless position because the only hope against a human would be crazy and objectively losing lines, so I am not really playing against "best play".

Everyone here has a good hint that the starting position is very very probably losing by force. Everyone also knows that I would be lost five moves out of the book against a computer.

That's not what's going on here.

Move along please, Mr. Know-All-Nothing.

You're wrong about what's going on here, and now you're annoyed that you've been caught out.

I suggest you take your superior attitude elsewhere, and quit while you're behind.

On page 4 or 5 I posted:

I suspect this line was chosen for that very reason (i.e. not just that e4 f5 sucks for black, but that engines handle it particularly poorly), but coming out of the opening with a clear pawn up is probably not enough to survive the middle and endgame unless there's been a lot of pre-analysis done.

...which Irontiger says is not the case.  So, it comes down to this...if we take Irontiger at his word and there was no pre-analysis done, it's a "valid" game.  If he has done even a modicum of computer analysis in advance (or has access to centaur games with this line having been played), then white should win this handily no matter how many plies are run ;).

If people want to check this, it shouldn't be hard...since computer analysis is allowed, a top 4 analysis on Irontiger's end of things can be done as the game goes along.

It's completely apparent that you didn't even fully read the OP, before giving us the benefit of your "wisdom".

Have you now read it? or are you only here to cause trouble?

Now maybe I interpret that differently than you, but it certainly sounds like a taunt when he claimed he can beat any computer with the white pieces in this opening.

Nope, that's exactly the interpretation I made.

The pointless part about it is the opening already has been established as refuted for black.

Yes, even quite lowly players know this.

So he's not proving anything, and neither are you guys for playing into it.

The whole exercise is not about proving anything, rather picking up the gauntlet that he threw down. I happen to believe that a decent engine will beat him, even from a poor start.

especially since he is obviously using computer help as well.

Therein lies the rub. It had occurred to me also, but assisted moves will be more difficult to pass off, once the position becomes more complicated.

It's just a bit of harmless fun, we're not breaking new ground here.

@FirebrandX You are right that this opening is completely refuted, but you must not underestimate the difference in strength between Irontiger (no offense inteded, a solid player, but a human nonetheless) and the silicon monsters. A small imprecision in white's play will melt down his advantage just a little bit, but enough for the computer to consolidate. If you don't believe in the strength of the computers, try setting up an equal rook engame with 6 or more pawns versus Houdini or Fritz. Most likely, you will be heavily struggling for a draw.

...I think Firebrandx understands the difference in strength between Irontiger and the best engines.  I guess you don't know who he is :).

I think that's a bit of a strange judgment regarding the US centaur champion.

He just thinks this thread is about finding the truth of the position, which of course it isn't.

I am not using computer help, and it is precisely to dismiss such suspicions that I try to comment on the moves I play. I don't need to play computers against each other to know that the position should be lost.

From now on, anyone who starts or keeps flamewarring with another poster (as the two people I quote have done) will get banned. You still keep some leeway against me (I trust myself to avoid escalation), but I don't want troll food in closed loop.

Back on topic. Anything else than 11...Re8 or should I call the move ?

I'm out. Stuff it.

Komodo also likes 11...Re8.

By tabulate, do you mean make a graph or table of the different engines chosen moves?  That would be interesting, not sure how to do it though.

I too hope Doggy_Style comes back.

@ LongIslandMark, Is this kind of what you were thinking?  This table just shows the moves chosen by each engine since the start of the game.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. GOOD JOB FIREBRAND X 

You said exactly what I thought lol Irontiger obviously using a computer. You guys never should've accepted  his challenge anyway Doggy_Style just realized he was wrong so he chickened out 

I believe the tiger, hope that the dog comes back and the roman soldier learns to understand the difference between his chess and the chess in this thread. This is just fun. I think it is interesting to see how different engines react. On move 11 would Sjeng play Re8 too, with Nd8 as the second option.

@Irontiger: I don't understand which rules of conduct were broken by Doggy_Style. He did not accuse you, he actually defended you.

I believe the main problem was Doggy_Style should have stopped "feeding the flames", but I am with you; he really didn't say anything terribly troublesome. 

I agree, Re8 is the best move. 

Great :)...even better would be number of plies in parentheses, and a T1 through T4 added to Irontiger's moves if he chooses a Stockfish/Komodo/Houdini top 4 engine move...

Irontiger has "fed the flames" himself in other topics. Shoulda let that one go. Now, there's one less person providing insight into what was a fun topic.

Yep, but here I can ban people. Like it or not, that's the way it is. I did not do it yet, maybe because the threat is stronger than the execution.

If someone wishes to post computer evaluations of my moves afterwards, be my guest.

Back on topic : 12.Bg5 is my move, preparing development such as Nbd2, possibly with Spanish-like Nd2-f1-g3 stuff to come.