Legend says that even xplayer can't do it, so...
4..Qb6 in the FD:A variation?
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Nov 16, 2015
0
#23
I never could understand how a thread could dissolve to meaningless arguments in just two pages.
Veganomnomnom wrote:
X_PLAYER_J_X:
Your grammar, spelling, and reasoning are all pretty weak. It's very obvious from pfren's post that he was saying that 4...Qb6 is a weak move (ill-timed) because of (after White plays) poucin's suggested 5.Nc3. He was saying that poucin's move, far from being bad, is actually the reason 4...Qb6 is not the correct move.
What is 'would of?' You say it multiple times, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Do you mean 'would have?'
Your logic in saying that it doesn't matter what White plays after 4...Qb6 because Black already made a mistake also does not make any sense. It matters very much what White plays if White wants to take advantage of the mistake! Perhaps this explains why your chess games look so poorly played.
Thank you Veganomnomnom.
For saying the text in red.
Finially someone understands why I am right.
Pfren is saying pouncing move which is played at move 5 is the reason why 4...Qb6 is a bad move.
However, the reason 4...Qb6 is a bad move is because of whites previous move 4.Be3
4.Be3 is "white's mistake"
Black should punish "white's mistake with 4...cxd4".
White should have played 4.c3 "defending the d4 pawn"
White didn't play 4.c3 he played Be3 which means black can punish white by taking on d4 now.
What has happen in the position is a double mistake by both sides!
5.Nc3 is a equal-ish move.
5.Nc3 may be the "best move in the position".
However, It is the best move in a equal-ish sub-par variation.
Simply because they made mistakes prior.
Which means when you go back to review the game and are looking for "improvement"
The "improvement" you will find will happen from these 2 spots (4.Be3 and 4...Qb6).
As for the following statement:
"Your logic in saying that it doesn't matter what White plays after 4...Qb6 because Black already made a mistake also does not make any sense."
? Doesn't make sense you say?
Reread the text again and Think about what I am going to say below:
White can play how many legal moves in the position?
Lets say White can play 20 legal moves at move 5.
Out of the 20 legal moves white can play in this position.
How can any of them absolve Black of playing 4...Qb6 instead of 4...cxd4?
Nothing white can play can change the fact black should have an advantage at move 4 with cxd4.
Which means this whole 4...Qb6 is bad because of the white move 5.Nc3 is rather crazy and wrong.
Scrap the whole continuation.
Play good positions.
OP if you are reading this please realize when you have a chance to play a good position do it!
When ever your opponents play 4.Be3 play 4...cxd4!!
WHY?
Simply because you like Winning and you realize getting an advantage in the position can help you win the game.
Veganomnomnom wrote:
If your argument is that we shouldn't be analyzing an opening position where both sides have made an error, I agree. Analyzing after one error makes perfect sense, though.
My agrument was about caring and being friendly to other people.
Showing constructive criticism when you disagree with people.
Something which does not exist on this forum apparently.
Pfren came to the forum and began criticizing people who where trying to help the OP.
The criticism Pfren made to the 2 players on this forum.
Where filled with wrong controversial statements about chess line's.
Pfrens comments were snide and hypocritical.
I believe he was wrong for doing what he did and I showed why his analysis was wrong.
Now that you see he is wrong as well I have nothing further to say about that issue.
Thank you very much Veganomnomnom.
As for the OP:
I know the answer you are looking for.
You had a question in your mind.
The answer to your question is Yes.
4...Qb6 can be playable in the French Defence Advanced Variation.
If you are interested into playing the line.
Research the line known as:
French Defense/Advance Variation/Wade Variation
I showed a diagram of the moves/position on post #7 of this forum.
I even talked about some of the idea's black has in that line.
For more information about the line
Read post #25
In the first 3 paragraphs Thriller wrote.
He was talking about the Wade Variation.
He gave some important tips to be aware of if you do plan on playing it.
I hope that helps my friend.
Nov 17, 2015
0
#26
Fiveofswords wrote:
i think this thread is rather fascinating from a psychological standpoint. lets just sit back and observe the indisputable facts. first of all the op asked about 4...qb6 in the french advance. the op did not specify what whites 4th move was an in fact gave a strange 4th move.
Yes, it's a fascinating thread alright. At this point you don't even need any additional input from anyone - they can just sit back and observe you bury yourself in the indisputable facts.
Fiveofswords,
The O.P. asked about 4...Qb6 (which is decorated as an interesting move) after 4.Be3, and this is pretty clear. I guessed that even you would understand this, but... alas, no such luck.
Nov 17, 2015
0
#28
Trying to get back on track:
4.Be3?! is not particularly good. 4...cxd4! is the critical response and scores quite well for Black, but 4...Qb6!?/?! is interesting and has been played.
The one game between masters that I found actually showed an interesting idea. White offered a pawn and Black didn't take it. I liked Black's position after ~10 moves, but White won the game. The game was only a blitz/rapid internet game, but it was still interesting:
After reading this thread I came to the conclusion that Xplayer's aggressive illiteracy is the problem. I like the way he writes "whatever" as two words while defending his reading mistake because "ill-timed" was not hyphenated. This is especially egregious because the use of "whatever" as a mild dismissive is idiomatic. Due to this lack of attention to detail, the sentence "[t]hey said they spent 5 mins or what ever" can be read as a poorly punctuated interruption by infinity that distracts the speaker. In this case, the sentence should read "they said they spent 5 mins or…" "What, ever?"
This post is patently ridiculous, but this misreading is as equally plausible as reading "ill timed" to mean pouchin's move is making pfren sick right now. Nothing anybody else said or did derailed this thread. Except maybe this post.
The one and only "serious" game I was able to find in my database after 4.Be3?! is an internet 8'+increment blitz game:
Black is Simen Agdestein, a very strong GM (former Junior World Champion) who never became a pro chess player (he was an excellent soccer player, but his soccer career ended very early due to a severe injury), but later he became a superb chess trainer- his most reknowned pupil is a patzer named Magnus something...
Nov 17, 2015
0
#31
Pfren, that was from the same tnmt that I posted from. I chose not to use that game because Black didn't play 4...Qb6.
SmyslovFan wrote:
Pfren, that was from the same tnmt that I posted from. I chose not to use that game because Black didn't play 4...Qb6.
Yes, I know. The problem is that I do have a few games with 4...Qb6, and even less with 5.Nc3!, but all of them are from lo-fi players.
Agdestein is a real French expert- he recently revived a line in the French Steinitz variation, which was regarded as "suspect" for Black at the very best, but after the Agdestein revision, it was tested at the highest level several times.
Nov 17, 2015
0
#33
pfren wrote:
Fiveofswords,
The O.P. asked about 4...Qb6 (which is decorated as an interesting move) after 4.Be3, and this is pretty clear. I guessed that even you would understand this, but... alas, no such luck.
Expecting FoS to execute common sense? That's really bold pfren!
I must ask X-player : is your first language English ? While I dont expect anyone's English to be perfect ( mine certainly is NOT ) I do expect an American's English to be better than a Germans , a Greeks and a Frenchman's ! The fact is that US schools are doing an awful job these days as is indicated by the very fact that the English of many US students is worse than the English of foreigners who are speaking/writing English as a second or third language ! My wife is Portuguese and her English is better than many Americans ... this is a condemnation of our educational system . She also knows more about US history than do many Americans .. which is truly sad .
Well, dear FivefSwords... 3.Be3 is a nonsense gambit (I don't remember its name, shame on me), 4.Be3 is a nonsense move with no name, 4.c3 Nc6 5.Be3 is the Kupreichik variation which may be nonsense, and your posts are nonsense from head to foot. I hope I was more clear now- or not?
pfren wrote:
Well, dear FivefSwords... 3.Be3 is a nonsense gambit (I don't remember its name, shame on me), 4.Be3 is a nonsense move with no name, 4.c3 Nc6 5.Be3 is the Kupreichik variation which may be nonsense, and your posts are nonsense from head to foot. I hope I was more clear now- or not?
Alapin variation ?
Nov 17, 2015
0
#37
Reb wrote:
I must ask X-player : is your first language English ? While I dont expect anyone's English to be perfect ( mine certainly is NOT ) I do expect an American's English to be better than a Germans , a Greeks and a Frenchman's ! The fact is that US schools are doing an awful job these days as is indicated by the very fact that the English of many US students is worse than the English of foreigners who are speaking/writing English as a second or third language ! My wife is Portuguese and her English is better than many Americans ... this is a condemnation of our educational system . She also knows more about US history than do many Americans .. which is truly sad .
It all depends on the school. Don't generalize.
Reb wrote:
I must ask X-player : is your first language English ? While I dont expect anyone's English to be perfect ( mine certainly is NOT ) I do expect an American's English to be better than a Germans , a Greeks and a Frenchman's ! The fact is that US schools are doing an awful job these days as is indicated by the very fact that the English of many US students is worse than the English of foreigners who are speaking/writing English as a second or third language ! My wife is Portuguese and her English is better than many Americans ... this is a condemnation of our educational system . She also knows more about US history than do many Americans .. which is truly sad .
I am actually a Latin American.
Nov 17, 2015
0
#39
Fiveofswords wrote:
from a humanistic side attacking xplayer is simply wrong. its not making any positive difference in the word. and from a logical standpoint your argument is totally invalid anyway....if you seriously think you are trying to call attention to something important. please. this is known as a case study logical fallacy...xplayer is one person from the us who misunderstood the meaning of one post? therefore us education system is terrible? it does not follow. get smarter please.
Huh?
X_Player's posts have been long-winded drivel. Your one post of substance that I saw had nothing to do with the question, but about another French position involving Qb6.
While I'm no fan of personal attacks, I haven't seen anything from either of you that is germane and useful to this topic.
Fiveofswords wrote:
i think this thread is rather fascinating from a psychological standpoint. lets just sit back and observe the indisputable facts. first of all the op asked about 4...qb6 in the french advance. the op did not specify what whites 4th move was an in fact gave a strange 4th move. poucin focused on the exact strange line the op gave. i took a more generalized approach stating how qb6 is not rare in the french because of pressure on d4..but i stated that whether qb6 is good or not obviously must depends on the specific position and the fact the op did not provide a 4th move from white shows he isnt thibking of specific positions. i offered one variation where i know qb6 is a good and logical move...and i felt it illustrated well the way black can force white to clarify his intentions by putting pressure on d4 while also how taking on b2 may be unwise...this was apparently a terrible thing for me to do and provoked outcries from pfren who i suppose didnt notice that the qb6 move in that line does in fact pressure d4...and his attitude was assisted by by various irrelevant minions who i suppose dont think i might know that the tarrasch is not the advance....whatever...all of it was unecessary and useless. meanwhile poor xplayer takes issue with this trolling from pfren and most unfortunately for xplayer he seems to misunderstand pfrens comments relating to poucin...which people could have just ignored and let go and dealt with the more relevant fact which is that pfren and smyslovs attitude is very negative and unnecessary and actually quite wrong. but people preferred to jump all over xplayer with cavailing details of how he could misunderstand the language used by pfren. now we cant speak about qb6 in the french anymore now this is a circus of petty bickering. where did it start? pfren.
After a few days of people saying my English is terrible, My translation is terrible, and my understanding is terrible.
Those people have came up with phrases which translates what Pfren comment said below:
4...Qb6 looks ill timed to me after Poucin's suggested move 5.Nc3.
The text in green is what Pfren originally said.
A few commenters interpreted the text in green with below statements:
- "4...Qb6 looks ill-timed to me after [I saw] Poucin's suggested move 5.Nc3".
- He was saying that poucin's move, far from being bad, is actually the reason 4...Qb6 is not the correct move.
Now lets take the first sentence from above.
- "4...Qb6 looks ill-timed to me after [I saw] Poucin's suggested move 5.Nc3".
In the above sentence if we wanted to flip the subject and predicate of the sentence around how would we do it?
Poucin's suggested move 5.Nc3 makes the move 4...Qb6 look ill to Pfren.
Now take out the moves!
Pouncin's suggested move is making Pfren Ill.
What did I say?
Pouncin move is making him Ill?
In the above sentence the only thing they can critize me on is my use of the word "him"
Since it could cause confusion on who "him" is.
However, The "him" I am refering to in this sentence is Pfren.
At which case I could of wrote the sentence like below:
Pouncin move is making Pfren Ill.
I guess I do not see how I am misinterpreting what has been said by flipping the sentence around.
For my own curiosity...does anyone read all of Xplayers posts? I cant get through them so im wondering.