A Bust to the Sicilian Defense

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Avatar of Mazetoskylo
Supergamer4799 wrote:

Many may try this against this idea

Any particularly good reason you are demostrating a blunder which drops the e4 pawn for nothing?

Avatar of crazedrat1000

You're winning games because people find the alapin so boring they don't even want to bother studying it. The alapin is simply not a crack to the sicilian.

Avatar of MihirKotbagi
staples13 wrote:

I have to share this most recent game. A valiant effort by my opponent but ultimately the Alapin can not be stopped only slowed. A cool checkmate at the end but the game was decided after 1. c5??. As always this is a 3 minute no increment blitz game

Seems like you were nearly losing at move 21 and then they blundered. How does this prove that the Alapin is great?

Avatar of Chuck639

I don’t mind the Alapin and actually ran into it quite a bit at a club I use play at.

As black, you have many set-up to choose from and even transpositions to French positions as well.

Its pretty much an equal middle game for both sides.

Avatar of Mazetoskylo
Chuck639 wrote:

Its pretty much an equal middle game for both sides.

Really? You mean it's not equal for one side only? tongue.png

Avatar of Zidanefre

staples13 we miss you bro

Avatar of staples13
Zidanefre wrote:

staples13 we miss you bro

Thank you, I miss you too

Avatar of DutchKnightScholar
It controls d4
Avatar of haggardthehag

Why does sicilian black have a higher win percentage than white against alapin (35% vs 34%) in the opening explorer, despite white having a slight eval advantage (0,17)? Nf3 seems better for white: 0,31 eval, and 38% win rate vs 34% (suggests it's easier to play, and requires less theory). If you've spent 10000 hours on theory for alapin, yeah, you'll outperform your peers, but that goes for any opening, just pick anything with reasonably tactical middlegames, easy transpositions, and practice puzzles.

Avatar of haggardthehag

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/166278678100/review?move=16

10000 hours of alapin, only to lose right out of the opening to an equal rated player in sicilian on move 9, with an equal accuracy of 70% apiece. Sicilian must be a braindead easy opening to play with lots of positions where white has only 1 slightly centipawn positive move to not lose, while black has multiple options that force white into "1 only move, or slightly losing". Wonder what the number of hours of theory is required to overcome that ease of play built into sicilian to finally show how winning alapin is. Opening explorer has a lot of catching up to do to the "truth", since black has higher win rates there for alapin.

Avatar of veidoskuap
The practical paradox in this comes down to human playability. Precise maneuvering and timing are key in executing this theory. Tougher in rapid setups. This can be flipped. Let’s say black has memorized 10000 hrs of theory too. They then combat with flexible move orders (delay d5 after white Nf3, rendering c3 less useful). Subtle positional choices then trump theory on the level playing field.
Avatar of haggardthehag
veidoskuap wrote:
The practical paradox in this comes down to human playability. Precise maneuvering and timing are key in executing this theory. Tougher in rapid setups. This can be flipped. Let’s say black has memorized 10000 hrs of theory too. They then combat with flexible move orders (delay d5 after white Nf3, rendering c3 less useful). Subtle positional choices then trump theory on the level playing field.

Yeah, I noticed Qa4 was good in a lot of the side lines, it's crazy how quick eval flipped to white losing in that staples game I posted when the "intuitive" line for white got move order mind gamed.

Avatar of staples13
haggardthehag wrote:

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/166278678100/review?move=16

10000 hours of alapin, only to lose right out of the opening to an equal rated player in sicilian on move 9, with an equal accuracy of 70% apiece. Sicilian must be a braindead easy opening to play with lots of positions where white has only 1 slightly centipawn positive move to not lose, while black has multiple options that force white into "1 only move, or slightly losing". Wonder what the number of hours of theory is required to overcome that ease of play built into sicilian to finally show how winning alapin is. Opening explorer has a lot of catching up to do to the "truth", since black has higher win rates there for alapin.

It’s not even a debate anymore. The Sicilian is busted. It loses by force. After 2. C3 black can never equalize and ultimately loses

Avatar of crazedrat1000

You probably aren't serious but I am not certain of that...

Avatar of haggardthehag
staples13 wrote:
haggardthehag wrote:

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/166278678100/review?move=16

10000 hours of alapin, only to lose right out of the opening to an equal rated player in sicilian on move 9, with an equal accuracy of 70% apiece. Sicilian must be a braindead easy opening to play with lots of positions where white has only 1 slightly centipawn positive move to not lose, while black has multiple options that force white into "1 only move, or slightly losing". Wonder what the number of hours of theory is required to overcome that ease of play built into sicilian to finally show how winning alapin is. Opening explorer has a lot of catching up to do to the "truth", since black has higher win rates there for alapin.

It’s not even a debate anymore. The Sicilian is busted. It loses by force. After 2. C3 black can never equalize and ultimately loses

Out of the last 3 alapin sicilian games you played, you lost 2 and drew 1. Out of the last 50, you lost 24, won 22, and drew 4, against equally rated players. Why does sicilian black have a higher win percentage than white against alapin (35% vs 34%) in the opening explorer? Everyone must just be getting lucky in such a trash opening against the "godly" alapin, that's the only explanation.

Avatar of James_J_Henderson

You might ask yourself why the Alapin has never been played in a world championship match. (There have been 85 opportunities.)

Avatar of Nemo1723
staples13 wrote:

In my opinion the Sicilian Defense is busted. It loses by force.

The opening move of the Sicilian Defense violates just about every opening principle. It fails to develop a piece, fails to put a pawn in the center, and fails to open up a bishop for development. It allows white to immediately open up the center and to do so with greater development. The Sicilian Defense has nevertheless remained popular despite all of this for one reason and one reason only; in order for white to open up the center it comes at the cost of having to trade its D pawn for black's C pawn. This is why the ideal response to the Sicilian is the Alapin Variation 2. C3! It says to black no you can't have my center pawn. Now white is ahead in both development and control of the center , and black has absolutely no compensation.

You don't believe me? Look at the game explorer then. I have played 581 games here on chess.com using the Alapin. I have won 68% lost 26% and drawn the other 6%. That is a score of 71%. No other opening is capable of scoring 71%. But to prove all this let's look at some games. First, we have a 3 minute no increment blitz game I played. Look at the massive advantage white immediately gets both in piece development and in center control. Both are problems which stem from black's first move.

Here's another 3 minute no increment blitz game I played. Notice how easy white's development is and how black's position is already completely unplayable by move 10.

Finally, I'm sure you want to see a master level game so here we have Deep Blue vs. Kasparov (1996). For a little historical context this was the first match between them and Kasparov annihilated Deep Blue +3 -1=2. Deep Blue's lone victory came as you might guess playing the Alapin Variation. Kasparov faced a horrible position straight out of the opening and Deep Blue wasted no time converting it. Notice that the most powerful chess player of all time got destroyed playing against a computer much weaker than him.

 

After 2. C3 black is in my opinion lost. White refuses to allow black to exchange its c pawn for white's d pawn giving black no compensation for white's lead in development and center control, which ultimately always proves decisive in the end.

I'd like to close by saying that of course black can always play differently than in the games shown, in which case he merely loses differently.

oh yeah... you marked particular moves as "brilliant." chess.com defines a brilliancy as a sacrifice that led to an advantage. your "brilliants" were just captures leading to material advantage, or a anti-sicilian move you were overly passionate about.

Avatar of Nemo1723

plus people make their own choices.. they can play sicilian whenever they want

Avatar of Ze_Shoopuf

1...c5 does not violate opening principles as controlling the center is one of the core opening principles. It is in fact, apart from 1...e5, the only move for Black which prevents White from building a pawn center immediately

Avatar of shru

The engine even believes in the Sicilian…