A good black opening

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TheOldReb
What do you want with black? Is a draw ok? Or you want to win? The answer to what is a good opening depends on what result you want and who your opposition is, doesnt it? I often risk the modern benoni against non titled players when I want to win with black or a sharp line in the sicilian if they play 1e4 but against an IM or GM a draw suits me fine and I am not likely to choose either of those openings against them.
mandelshtam

The theorey claims an advantage for white in the following lines:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 ed 4. N:d4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. f3 Bg7 7. Be3 0-0 8. Qd2 , 

where white is stronger in the center, and gets the typical "english attack" on the black's king. In contrast to the dragon, black does not play on the c-file here...

Anyway there is not so much material available, compared to the dragon.  

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3  d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Nd7 5. Bc4 Be7 6. 0-0 0-0 7. a4!

(not 7.Qe2 , since after 7.... ed 8. N:d4 Ne5 9. Bb3 c5 10. Nf5 B:f5 11. ef Re8

black is fine) 7....c6 8. Qe2  b6 9. Rd1 Qc7 10. Ba2 

White has a lot of space, and can calmly prepare an attack against the black king, which involves moves like  Nh4-f5, Bg5 and/or f2-f4. Black's only counterplay is a6 and then b6-b5 , still without real threats.

In contrast to Ruy Lopez, the white bishop is active FROM THE BEGINNING. 

Well, as I said elsewhere, all this does not mean yet, that black is objectively lost in these two variants.

Perhaps, Philidor is one of those openings which still make a draw....

Mandelshtam   


longhairluke
To tighten up the question I want one that wins no draw.I had a game were i had a king and a rook and the opponent had the same thing I would of kept on going until someone wins or loses but he forced draw. So one that wins would be good.
CarlMI

No such animal.  No opening wins, loses or draws.  They merely give an advantage or equalize. Players lose in the opening but it is the fault of the player, not of the opening.   As white you are trying to maximize the advantage of moving first.  Generally, with black, you are looking to equalize and if you are playing for a win you want a "dynamic" equality where the position contains imbalances that you  can use.  You are chasing a chimera that does not exist.  Retailor your expectations and an opening can be found.


Marshal_Dillon
The Pirc. Learn it. Live it. Be it. 
mandelshtam

yes, I prefer Pirc, compared to Philidor.

But the position in Pirc is more asymmetric, that is, a draw is less likely...

Mandelshtam 


tundish
Jeremy Silman CREATING AN EASY
OPENING REPERTOIRE FOR BLACK should sort you out have a look
ster14

ok...this one is called elefants atak

i dont now how to use it but im learning it  ..:)

                             

 

 

 

 

 

 

i ll tell u everything i now about this strange counter atak

the best move for white is N:e5 cause if e:d5 blak can do that! e4!!and if Nd4 blak can destroy his enemy!

if u have any ideas about this opening plz send me an email 


mandelshtam
ster14 wrote:

ok...this one is called elefants atak

i dont now how to use it but im learning it  ..:)

                             

 

 

 

 

 

 

i ll tell u everything i now about this strange counter atak

the best move for white is N:e5 cause if e:d5 blak can do that! e4!!and if Nd4 blak can destroy his enemy!

if u have any ideas about this opening plz send me an email 


I remember it has once been analysed in "Caissiber" (editor is Stefan Buecker, who is also an IM). You might ask him. 

Mandelshtam 


BasicLvrCH8r

Play the French Defence.


CarlMI

The Winawer is fun but the line your gave for White is inferior to the main line.  It also ignores that White does not have to enter the Winawer.  That said the French is a good opening for black.  It gives less chance for a win, than say, the Najdorf Sicilian but less chance for a loss as well.

Before you pick an opening for black decide what you want to accomplish as Black (play for a win, play to not lose, etc) and what resources (time, references, skill, style), that you have.  From there you can start to pick an opening. 


demoliti0n
French Defense !
The_Pitts
I'm with the KID!
jonloop

The question to ask, as several people have said here, is what do you want to achieve?

I would go a bit further than to decide if you want to go for a win, or for a draw. I would say that you should decide to learn in every game.

Apologies if I'm wrong, but you seem to be a beginner (as I am), so you should be looking to improve. Standard teaching on openings seems to be that you should play open positions before closed positions, tactical before positional. So go for open positions as Black, like 1... e5, or 1... d5. Then, when you are happy with these, move onto the French defense, then onto semi-closed positions, and finally closed positions


Meadmaker

As a weak player who didn't know any openings at all (and still doesn't know much), I found myself losing frequently when I would begin with e4, and instead of the expected e5, I got e6.  I thought that this must be a weaker move, and was curious what sort of gimmick they were up to.  After losing consistently, I eventually read about something called the French Defense, and have had good luck playing it.

The key is that if you are asking such a general question, I assume that you, like me, aren't the strongest player and have little formal training.  I find that I can't beat the strong players regardless, but the French Defense throws off other weak players, allowing me to win the game some times.


dc1985
I particularly enjoy the caro kann, but really, it all depends on your personal style.
RandolphNewman

I only play the PWNzor, although I typically let it transpose to the roXxor or lollercoaster. Occasionally I play the lmaonade gambit.

Joe14
yes i have one e5 and next c5 this opens centralized the def and the attack can help you in points and strategies are more easy foryou and not for your oponent .vote for me