A very annoying opening

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Avatar of Refrigerator321

There is this opening for black that is more or less universal and I think it might be super annoying to deal with. It shuts down the position immediately and forces a slow, maneuvering game similar to the czech benoni. 

You try to put pawns on e6 and d5, your knight on f6 and bishop on e7

That was the optimal way to play against it.

Another line would be

Any feedback (or a name for this system)?

Avatar of goommba88

It would just be called an Old Indian setup for black/ In line 1 u give up your advantage/but in line 2 u have more space and better pieces. After a move like 8.h3 ask your opponent/ where is your counterplay!?

(3..Ne5 is much better than Nb8 by the way)

Avatar of MansouriDB
goommba88 wrote:

It would just be called an Old Indian setup for black/ In line 1 u give up your advantage/but in line 2 u have more space and better pieces. After a move like 8.h3 ask your opponent/ where is your counterplay!?

(3..Ne5 is much better than Nb8 by the way)

Would Czech Benoni ideas still apply here? (Particularly, Black going Ne8, g6, Ng7 and f5)

Avatar of ThrillerFan

3.d5 is not best. While the computer may give a couple of tenths of a point more to 3.d5, the difference between +0.5 and +0.3 is negligible. When a computer says +2 or -2, that makes a difference.

What matters, with HUMANS playing the game, whether here or over the board, is does the position make sense to a human. Can the human being come up with a cohesive plan?

I would rather take a position that is +0.3 and easier to play for White than +0.5 in a position where finding a legitimate plan for White is more complicated.

If you have ever played Benoni or kings indian lines with a big center for White, like the Taimanov or Four Pawns attack, we all know the plan is to ram in e5. A line like the following is better for White:

Avatar of MaetsNori
PotatoesAndChess wrote:

There is this opening for black that is more or less universal and I think it might be super annoying to deal with. It shuts down the position immediately and forces a slow, maneuvering game similar to the czech benoni.

That's just an Old Indian structure. Also known as: a slightly inferior version of the King's Indian.

With a closed center like that, Black's king bishop would rather be on g7 than on e7.

But you don't have to close the center with d5, if you don't like playing closed centers.

A simple alternative:

The center remains unlocked and dynamic. Simple, clean moves.

Avatar of Refrigerator321
goommba88 wrote:

It would just be called an Old Indian setup for black/ In line 1 u give up your advantage/but in line 2 u have more space and better pieces. After a move like 8.h3 ask your opponent/ where is your counterplay!?

(3..Ne5 is much better than Nb8 by the way)

Nb8 is better according to the engine because of f4

Avatar of amineelkazkaz

I think that

Avatar of ThrillerFan
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
goommba88 wrote:

It would just be called an Old Indian setup for black/ In line 1 u give up your advantage/but in line 2 u have more space and better pieces. After a move like 8.h3 ask your opponent/ where is your counterplay!?

(3..Ne5 is much better than Nb8 by the way)

Nb8 is better according to the engine because of f4

Two problems:

1) Engines suck at openings. That is why they are useless with an installed opening book in the early phase of the game. They will say some random opening is +1.2 for White, but once you play 3 moves for White and 3 moves for Black, going based on what yhe computer claims is the best move, it has suddenly gone from +1.2 to +0.4, just like that!

2) Do not get hung up on the numbers. If one move it claims is +0.52 and another is +0.46, the difference is so negligible that they are virtually the same strength, and one computer will say the first move is ever so slightly better and another computer will say the second move is better. Now if one move is +2.5 and the other move is +0.4, now the moves make a difference. Anything over 2 or under -2 is a serious indicator of an error being made. But don't just start thinking a move is best because one random computer gives it a +0.9 while other moves only get a +0.73. You will fail miserably trying to think like that. Sometimes computer moves make no sense what-so-ever, and you would lose trying to figure out the following moves. You need to come up with a legitimate reason describing in WORDS, NOT NUMBERS, why a particular move is good or bad.

"Computer says it's better ..." - SMH

Avatar of AtaChess68
That’s an instructive rant ThrillerFan.
Avatar of Refrigerator321
ThrillerFan wrote:
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
goommba88 wrote:

It would just be called an Old Indian setup for black/ In line 1 u give up your advantage/but in line 2 u have more space and better pieces. After a move like 8.h3 ask your opponent/ where is your counterplay!?

(3..Ne5 is much better than Nb8 by the way)

Nb8 is better according to the engine because of f4

Two problems:

1) Engines suck at openings. That is why they are useless with an installed opening book in the early phase of the game. They will say some random opening is +1.2 for White, but once you play 3 moves for White and 3 moves for Black, going based on what yhe computer claims is the best move, it has suddenly gone from +1.2 to +0.4, just like that!

2) Do not get hung up on the numbers. If one move it claims is +0.52 and another is +0.46, the difference is so negligible that they are virtually the same strength, and one computer will say the first move is ever so slightly better and another computer will say the second move is better. Now if one move is +2.5 and the other move is +0.4, now the moves make a difference. Anything over 2 or under -2 is a serious indicator of an error being made. But don't just start thinking a move is best because one random computer gives it a +0.9 while other moves only get a +0.73. You will fail miserably trying to think like that. Sometimes computer moves make no sense what-so-ever, and you would lose trying to figure out the following moves. You need to come up with a legitimate reason describing in WORDS, NOT NUMBERS, why a particular move is good or bad.

"Computer says it's better ..." - SMH

Sorry, I didn't make my point clear enough. I wasn't trying to say that Nb8 is definitely, 100% better than Ne5, I was just saying that Ne5 is not "much better" as goommba88 says

Avatar of LochaSog

Why 3. d5? It just closes the game!