acc dragon: 7...Qa5 Vs 8...a5

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fritzricky
omertatao wrote:
fritzricky wrote:

The accelerated dragon may be static in the main line, but if white trys to get into a Yugoslav attack (and it does happen) the accelerated dragon can explode into life and equalise for black. Your likely to catch out at least one person by this!


this is true, but you have to know the accelerated precisely to take advantage of it, I should say if you don't know the stuff down cold, it's really easy to forget something and all of sudden find yourself in a yugoslav attack saying to yourself "he's not supposed to be able to do that" Im sure this isn't something professionals worry about, but for people just learning it, believe me, it can happen. people will try and trick you with move orders. the thing with accelerated dragon in my experience, I'm not a professional, just some guy who is learning it, you have to play it extremely precisely, for two reasons, if you don't, you'll get killed or if your opponent errs you won't get the continuation that equalizes or more. that's the thing in my opinion, not only does black have to play it precisely, white does too, if white doesn't play the exact right moves they can get stomped in the opening, and this happens more frequently than you would suspect at club level. probably doesn't happen at IM/GM level.

 

I found looking at the accelerated dragon games of GM Vladamir Malakhov very helpful, he has played it a bunch and I think his conclusion was something along the lines that at the IMGM level it's like a reliable drawing weapon or something, but real difficult to get any type of meaningful advantage, I think I read this in an interview he gave. but if something is a reliable drawing weapon at the IMGM level, it's probably more than solid at club level, even right up to around like 2000 or expert, maybe even a little above this. right? that's what I think anyway.


though i have not played the mainlines in this opening much, i've never found any dangerous (for black) trick move orders to get into the yugoslav attack (and i don't think there are any, but please inform me if iam wrong) theory wise, the accelerated dragon isn't all that bad, and the big advantage of the accelerated dragon is that it is NOT meant to be sharp and i cannot find any exceptions to this except maybe for a dubious one a friend played on me. As for the opening's statistics, i have to agree that this opening is a drawing weapon. All in all, it's probably easier to play than some sicilians, not a bad opening at all. Also, i thank you for suggesting GM Vladamir Malakhov as a good person to look up to for this opening.

shequan
thenazgul wrote:

1. regarding roman dzindzi's videos! well, i have most of his DVDs (including 66 and 67) but i prefer to have another source to rely on! (nothing personal, but his DVDs are a bit more commercial than educational! IMHO, it's like doing anything, just to sell more copies! ... i know that all those who make DVDs, have commercial targets, but i mean, if you compare Chessbase DVDs, Foxy series, and Roman's Labs, you will find that roman's quality is the poorest). so to sum up, i prefer to base my studies on other sources!

P.S: please note that in the book he did: " chess openings for black, explained" , he recommended playing the a5 variation instead of Qa5(the variation recommended in his DVD)", in addition to that, if you search for the same book for the white side, you will see a lot of critics done to this book because of many inaccurate analysis and refutable variations he gave!

 

2.regarding the level, well, i don't have a FIDE rating yet, mainly because im a little bit new to chess, but my level is around 2000-2050 (don't judge my rating here, i started playing last week, so it's gonna be higher soon hopefully)

 

3. regarding the move order dzindzi suggests to avoid the maroczy, he talks about it very briefly and says that black has good position, and he didn't even bother to talk about the variation in igor miladinovic's  game, he only talked baout taking c6 after Be3, Bg7, and then Nxc6, bxc6, e5, here he says Nd5 is playable, (this move was also recommended by andrew martin in his foxy video on the acc dragon) but he continues and says that he prefers Ng8... and gives few quick lines, and that's it, no real deep analysis. (P.S: when he finished talking about this variation, he said that "if you feel that there are any sidelines not covered in this video, you can pick up any book about the acc dragon and find more analysis there) so there were no special analysis with rybka regarding this line!

 

4. regarding what WGM pogonina said, its true, at a much lower level than IMs/GMs, all these theoretical statements are not very applicable, but anyway, i prefer to chose something that is good to use against a 1200 or a 2500 player! that's better than wasting my time now, and then later on when my opponents become stronger/close to masters level, find out that i have to change my repertoire.


I suggest you go watch that dvd again because what you wrote here is not accurate at all, he has a whole line, and a bunch of analysis after Ng8, I suppose you just don't remember, he obviously checked his analysis of these lines with the use of his super computer and rybka. why are you trying to mislead people? (weird)

you are also taking things he stated out of context/and twisting it. (strange)

and his book "chess openings for black explained" is actually recommended by IM Shahade as one of the few opening books actually worth something. 

I don't know what you have against GM Dzindzichasvili, but whatever it is, this is ridiculous. absurd really. I've seen the foxy dvds as well, and they didn't strike me as better than Roman's Lab in any way. both are quality chess dvds. what is your beef? (weird).

and by the way, Dzindzi would destroy you.

shequan
fritzricky wrote:
omertatao wrote:
fritzricky wrote:

The accelerated dragon may be static in the main line, but if white trys to get into a Yugoslav attack (and it does happen) the accelerated dragon can explode into life and equalise for black. Your likely to catch out at least one person by this!


this is true, but you have to know the accelerated precisely to take advantage of it, I should say if you don't know the stuff down cold, it's really easy to forget something and all of sudden find yourself in a yugoslav attack saying to yourself "he's not supposed to be able to do that" Im sure this isn't something professionals worry about, but for people just learning it, believe me, it can happen. people will try and trick you with move orders. the thing with accelerated dragon in my experience, I'm not a professional, just some guy who is learning it, you have to play it extremely precisely, for two reasons, if you don't, you'll get killed or if your opponent errs you won't get the continuation that equalizes or more. that's the thing in my opinion, not only does black have to play it precisely, white does too, if white doesn't play the exact right moves they can get stomped in the opening, and this happens more frequently than you would suspect at club level. probably doesn't happen at IM/GM level.

 

I found looking at the accelerated dragon games of GM Vladamir Malakhov very helpful, he has played it a bunch and I think his conclusion was something along the lines that at the IMGM level it's like a reliable drawing weapon or something, but real difficult to get any type of meaningful advantage, I think I read this in an interview he gave. but if something is a reliable drawing weapon at the IMGM level, it's probably more than solid at club level, even right up to around like 2000 or expert, maybe even a little above this. right? that's what I think anyway.


though i have not played the mainlines in this opening much, i've never found any dangerous (for black) trick move orders to get into the yugoslav attack (and i don't think there are any, but please inform me if iam wrong) theory wise, the accelerated dragon isn't all that bad, and the big advantage of the accelerated dragon is that it is NOT meant to be sharp and i cannot find any exceptions to this except maybe for a dubious one a friend played on me. As for the opening's statistics, i have to agree that this opening is a drawing weapon. All in all, it's probably easier to play than some sicilians, not a bad opening at all. Also, i thank you for suggesting GM Vladamir Malakhov as a good person to look up to for this opening.


obviously white can only get a yugoslav attack if black plays carelessly and errs. which is what I wrote. I didn't write that there was a way white can get a yugoslav if black plays everything accurately. if you don't know everything, just starting to learn the opening, you can easily make a mistake and suddenly find yourself with white castled queenside launching a yugoslavish attack on your fianchettoed kingside, which is essentially what I wrote, and is all I was saying.

shequan
thenazgul wrote:
pfren wrote:

With due respect, this is about another variation: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Nxc6 bc6 8.e5 and now both the pawn sac 8...Nd5 and 8...Ng8 are playable. Factly, a game of mine as Black with 8...Nd5 against FM Wagner is featured in a couple of theory books (it ended in a draw). I did not play something extravagant, just followed a sound analysis by GM Petursson.

In the above variation, 7...Nd5 just drops a pawn for nothing. Do not mix apples with oranges.


i know, thats what i said, dzindzi's analysis are for a different variation! my post was addressed to omertatao because he said: "I don't believe you and neither does GM Dzindzi and Rybka (running on 16 cores), if I'm not mistaken there's a very playable line after e5."

:)

I think both you have confused and twisted what I was trying to say. also sense animosity, don't know why, you don't even know me, but ok. all I was saying was that black can avoid the maroczy if white makes a certain move as opposed to another and after playing this way ( a Nf6 instead of a Bg7 in certain positions forcing Nc3) there are very playable lines. I was not saying that there is a way to completely avoid the maroczy if you play accelerated dragon, because there isn't.

 

you wrote you "just started playing" "started playing last week" so I assumed this to mean you didn't have all of roman's labs, foxy, chessbase dvds and weren't, as you write, 2000 elo. was assuming you were like 1600ish player trying to learn a bit of opening theory or something. 

 

in any case what I wrote is true, if white allows it, black can play Nf6 instead of Bg7 and force Nc3 with a completely playable position while avoiding the maroczy bind.

 

wow. can you feel the hate tonight. jesus.

shequan
pfren wrote:

7.Bb5+ is not dangerous at all, but you couldn't know by following Dzindzi videos. Black should answer 7...Nd7 with a good game.


not true is all I am going to say. watch the dvd for yourself.

shequan
pfren wrote:

Well, I do not follow Dzindzi's Roman's Lab videos (I have way better things to do than following childish Rybka variations, where the author Perelsteyn deliberately omits things, including his own games...) so I couldn't know.


wow. obviously this guy has some kind of hatred for Dzindzichasvili and Perelsteyn? I find this rather strange. did they snub you or something? what's the deal? you are mischaracterizing the work both of them have done and you know it.

shequan
Moses2792796 wrote:
In a current game I played the Sicilian with 2...g6 and my opponent played the 3. c3 variation. Following the analysis from Roman's lab I played 3...Bg7 4. d4 cxd4 5. cxd4 d5 6. e5 Bg4, now Roman says that black equalizes by playing Nc6 and e6, trading off his light squared bishop and bringing the kings knight to f5, but no mention is made of the move 7. Bb5+!, which makes Nc6 less attractive and all in all seems to give black a bad position, I just used this as an example of why you shouldn't follow these variations without checking them beforehand even though alot of Roman's ideas are interesting.

I'm not going through this, going back to the dvd to see what he stated, and then coming back here to tell you what you have wrong here. all I am going to say is something either happened in your game that you are not relating here, or you are misrepresenting the information presented in the dvd. jesus christ. I can't believe people have such animosity for GM Dzindzichasvili!!! wow. ok. all I am going to say is that the lines and analysis he presents in that dvd are completely valid and checked with a super computer, if you really understand what he is saying about it all, you can play these lines and get rock solid positions from the opening. what happens in the middlegame and endgame is something else entirely.

shequan
Moses2792796 wrote:
In a current game I played the Sicilian with 2...g6 and my opponent played the 3. c3 variation. Following the analysis from Roman's lab I played 3...Bg7 4. d4 cxd4 5. cxd4 d5 6. e5 Bg4, now Roman says that black equalizes by playing Nc6 and e6, trading off his light squared bishop and bringing the kings knight to f5, but no mention is made of the move 7. Bb5+!, which makes Nc6 less attractive and all in all seems to give black a bad position, I just used this as an example of why you shouldn't follow these variations without checking them beforehand even though alot of Roman's ideas are interesting.

if this is meaning to suggest that I blindly follow whatever is on the dvd, no, I don't. I listen to what the person is saying, you actually listening to what they are saying about different things. I only play moves that I understand, I understand the moves with help of GMs who make quality dvds for players 2200 and below.

bresando

Even patzers are sometimes able to find holes is his recommendations.

The only Dzindi's DVD i ever watched suggested "an easy way to earn a stable plus" against the dutch. In his sample line against the stonewall black was making so many ridicolous anti-positional mistakes that even a patzer like me was able to see the lie in a second. The obvious-looking move for black in that position was not covered at all. A quick look at a free database revealed that in practice the omitted reply was played in 90% of the games, with black scoring more than 50%. I found the whole thing borderline insulting. 

The only other contact i had with Dzindzi's work has been indirect. A chess friend came to me saying that he bought a chess DVD on the italian game where the author was claiming that his theoretical innovations would have made the italian the new main try for an advantage against 1...e5. His mainline was 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Bd2. My question was logical:"really? but hasn't 7...Nxe4 been known as a complete equalizer since 50 years?". Answer "ehm,7...Nxe4 you mean? i don't think he covers it...".

GM Dzindzihashwili is surely a stronger player than i will ever be, but as an author he has no dignity.