Alekhine's Defense

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penandpaper0089
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

penandpaper's first point makes sense. Second one... Not so much.

Actually it's true. It's exactly why defenses like this, the Pirc, Benoni, or Benko for example are not used at top levels as anything other than surprises. White has a choice between the theoretically most testing lines or a plethora of other lines that are equally, if not more, dangerous than that one. Giving White that many choices to a better position in the opening is not something that GMs like to do unless the tournament situation calls for them to try something different.

LouStule
LeifWulf wrote:

I hope I can spark some interest in this opening for black by this post and I would like to know how often players are seeing these series of moves. I know it isn't played by the big GM people and I'd personally like to know why. I think this is fun and maybe I could bring it back into the light for a lot of players out there. 

Alekhine's defense proceeds with the following moves: 

There are three main variations I know for this opening: The four pawns attack, Modern, and exchange. I will show these in the order I stated them. 

Also I am aware there is a Wikipedia page about all of this online. Don't just grab something from there, I want actual games and experience shown here. Have you ever played this?

Most people don't answer e4 with Nf6 because of the pawn push e5

LouStule
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

It breaks opening principles. Keek.

Exactly!

 

ChePlaSsYer

Actually it is not. White has 6 main moves against the Najdorf and I see it being played all the time. White has even more options against the King's Indian and It is the most famous defense to 1.d4

Those are just 2 examples that prove your theory wrong, I am sure I can think of more.

ChePlaSsYer

LouStule, I was joking. The Alekhine's defense is a good defense. 

penandpaper0089
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Actually it is not. White has 6 main moves against the Najdorf and I see it being played all the time. White has even more options against the King's Indian and It is the most famous defense to 1.d4

Those are just 2 examples that prove your theory wrong, I am sure I can think of more.

All of those 6 moves don't lead to an advantage for White. That's the whole point. There are a number of ways to an advantage in those other defenses with White being able to choose the type of game he wants with each. That's not easy to do at all in the Najdorf and get an advantage in the opening or the Berlin for that matter.

It's not about simply having options but options that give Black a hard time theoretically and allow White to dictate the game on his own terms without much say from Black.

But anyway this is a problem for titled players not everyone else. I play the Alekhine's myself and enjoy it but titled players may not play this defense as often as everyone else.

triggerlips

My main gripe with it, is that these days white plays so sensibly against it, that it has become nothing more than a glorified Caro Cann.   Very rare for white to go chasing the Knight around now, it either the main line where the miles variation c6 is probably best but boring, or the exchange which is actually less boring, but difficult.

    Cant remember the last time I faced the four pawns attack

ChePlaSsYer
penandpaper0089 wrote:
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Actually it is not. White has 6 main moves against the Najdorf and I see it being played all the time. White has even more options against the King's Indian and It is the most famous defense to 1.d4

Those are just 2 examples that prove your theory wrong, I am sure I can think of more.

All of those 6 moves don't lead to an advantage for White. That's the whole point. There are a number of ways to an advantage in those other defenses with White being able to choose the type of game he wants with each. That's not easy to do at all in the Najdorf and get an advantage in the opening or the Berlin for that matter.

It's not about simply having options but options that give Black a hard time theoretically and allow White to dictate the game on his own terms without much say from Black.

But anyway this is a problem for titled players not everyone else. I play the Alekhine's myself and enjoy it but titled players may not play this defense as often as everyone else.

Oh wow, thanks for solving a part of chess.

penandpaper0089
ChePlaSsYer wrote:
penandpaper0089 wrote:
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Actually it is not. White has 6 main moves against the Najdorf and I see it being played all the time. White has even more options against the King's Indian and It is the most famous defense to 1.d4

Those are just 2 examples that prove your theory wrong, I am sure I can think of more.

All of those 6 moves don't lead to an advantage for White. That's the whole point. There are a number of ways to an advantage in those other defenses with White being able to choose the type of game he wants with each. That's not easy to do at all in the Najdorf and get an advantage in the opening or the Berlin for that matter.

It's not about simply having options but options that give Black a hard time theoretically and allow White to dictate the game on his own terms without much say from Black.

But anyway this is a problem for titled players not everyone else. I play the Alekhine's myself and enjoy it but titled players may not play this defense as often as everyone else.

Oh wow, thanks for solving a part of chess.

Who said anything about solving chess? All of those moves are shown not to be advantageous by GM PRAXIS. If you know something they don't then my bad. I don't have anything to do with that kind of thing because it isn't relevant to my level. As far as the Najdorf goes I think 6.Bg5 and maybe 6.Be2 have the best results. The rest not so much. But ok you shouldn't take my word for it. See for yourself if that kind of thing interests you.

ChePlaSsYer

Just when you thought the crap wave was over...

I doubt they analyzed all the moves and possible variations till the endgame. So no one really knows if they lead to an advantage or not. If Black had such easy equality as you are making it look like then no one would play 1.e4.

Brobotics_brofessor

That's not my real OTB level. I just change it when trolling people to masquerade as a lower player. Really I mean Alekhine's defence can be problematic 2000+ because if they play scandinavian it can easily turn into a draw and if they do the modern variation (exchange is not as good for white because he took many tempos to push the pawn and he should use those extra tempos well instead of trading them off) and do simple developing and supporting moves then black can often be down on space.

penandpaper0089
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Just when you thought the crap wave was over...

I doubt they analyzed all the moves and possible variations till the endgame. So no one really knows if they lead to an advantage or not. If Black had such easy equality as you are making it look like then no one would play 1.e4.

GM PRAXIS =/= all the moves and variations possible until the endgame.

If you have 6 different ways to an advantage against the Najdorf that's great. You're a part of a very small group.

ChePlaSsYer

Lol. You are a joke. See ya.

JohnnyKGB
THIS LINE IS VERY CRAZY ,  IT IS HARD TO REFUTE WITH WHITE.
penandpaper0089
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Lol. You are a joke. See ya.

Don't get emotional because you can't handle the truth son.

DeathofaSuperhero

Why is everyone fighting here? Anyway JohnnyKGB that is interesting... White can't take and if he does he can't castle. Brutal. 

DeathofaSuperhero
Brobotics_brofessor wrote:

That's not my real OTB level. I just change it when trolling people to masquerade as a lower player. Really I mean Alekhine's defence can be problematic 2000+ because if they play scandinavian it can easily turn into a draw and if they do the modern variation (exchange is not as good for white because he took many tempos to push the pawn and he should use those extra tempos well instead of trading them off) and do simple developing and supporting moves then black can often be down on space.

Troll in what way? surprise.png

DeathofaSuperhero
penandpaper0089 wrote:
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Actually it is not. White has 6 main moves against the Najdorf and I see it being played all the time. White has even more options against the King's Indian and It is the most famous defense to 1.d4

Those are just 2 examples that prove your theory wrong, I am sure I can think of more.

All of those 6 moves don't lead to an advantage for White. That's the whole point. There are a number of ways to an advantage in those other defenses with White being able to choose the type of game he wants with each. That's not easy to do at all in the Najdorf and get an advantage in the opening or the Berlin for that matter.

It's not about simply having options but options that give Black a hard time theoretically and allow White to dictate the game on his own terms without much say from Black.

But anyway this is a problem for titled players not everyone else. I play the Alekhine's myself and enjoy it but titled players may not play this defense as often as everyone else.

So you believe that white will be better off in most variations? (no sarcasm just seriously asking)

ChePlaSsYer
penandpaper0089 wrote:
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Lol. You are a joke. See ya.

Don't get emotional because you can't handle the truth son.

Truth of what? What you are saying makes no sense. Why don't you show me the full analysis of 6.Bg5 until Black and White reach a King & King endgame? Until you do that you are just a fool talking about non-sense.

penandpaper0089
ChePlaSsYer wrote:
penandpaper0089 wrote:
ChePlaSsYer wrote:

Lol. You are a joke. See ya.

Don't get emotional because you can't handle the truth son.

Truth of what? What you are saying makes no sense. Why don't you show me the full analysis of 6.Bg5 until Black and White reach a King & King endgame? Until you do that you are just a fool talking about non-sense.

GM PRAXIS =/= THE REFUTATION OF CHESS

Do I need to type this in bold with a super large font? And why do I need to go to a king and king ending to show equality? Are you seriously suggesting that equality only exists when all the other pieces are gone? Who gave you that idea?

I don't need to show you anything. Read the informant. Look in TWIC. Look at the databases. See how everything that isn't 6.Bg5/6.Be3/6.Be2 is getting destroyed. I didn't mean that everything is a equal only that MOST of those 6 are shown not to lead to an advantage for White.

Again if you have found 6 ways to an advantage great. You've done something that 2700s have not been able to do. Bravo.