Is there compensation? In the two pawns attack here, is there someway white can generate an attack against black's king?
Alekhine's Defense
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Take, defend or move? What is best?
Sorry I will stop now.... I just love these diagrams....
StupidGM wrote:
LeifWulf wrote:
@StupidGM Well done I didn't even see the mate that could occur! I still don't know if its that bad though. Yes black's king is open but what about instead of 7. c5, black plays 7. Nf6 stopping the queen from coming in and makes a space for the king to move if worse comes.
Maybe you are right though... oh well. Still very good to have in the back of my mind.
Well after 7 Bd3 Nf6 8 g4!? (if the trap doesn't work) is about -1.75 in favor of Black according to Stockfish, but I see even strong players give it right back because they can't handle the complications (also I play mostly bullet but even "slow" time controls will fool people who don't understand the geometry). It's possible the silicon would gravitate back to equality, and if so, we have a forced draw with complications that favor White.
I do not use the Tate the way Tate did. My approach to it is highly positional, with an aim towards familiarity and extreme flexibility. I like that I can practically force this line after 1...Nf6, or get a great position if Black deviates.
Damn you are just beating all my theories here, mr. gm
But i guess that could make do something different then 8 e5 or maybe even sacrifice the knight to prolong the game.
It is strange that such a strong weapon (Tate variation) is not mentionned or briefly in most books dedicated to Alekhine's defence...
erzangel wrote:
I play Alekhine's defense sometimes too, and there are a lot of good games of GMs in the databases. Often we see some Sicilian-like positions after king-side fiancetto. An issue might be if the king-side knight was chased far away to defend the king -side castle!
The best weapon against that Emory Tate 4. a4 is the natural 4. ... a5! while 4. ... d6 looks like desperation to save the knight. But even 6. e6?! is not a real danger for Black then.
I played it out for a bit.
1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. c4 Nb6 4. a4 a5
5. c5 Nd5 6. d4 d6 7. cxd6 cxd6 8. exd6 exd6
9. Bc4 Nb6 10. Bb5+ Bd7 11. Bxd7+ N8xd7 12. Qe2+ Be7
13. Nf3 O-O 14. O-O
Maybe all these moves wouldn't be exactly in a game but I see what you are saying. The attack can be stopped.
Atleast for a short while anyway.... @erzangel
#47 In the Najdorf Mainline has:
25. Kb1 Bxg7 26. fxg7 Rg8 27. Qh4 Kc7 28. Qe7 Qc5 29. Bc8 Kb6 30. Qb7 Ka5 31. Qa8 Qc6 32. Rd5 Kb6 33. Qb8 1-0
in mind.
He forgot to mention that he did not play 25. Kb1 himself ...
With Bb3, c4, Bf4 in mind as White.
Try Lev Alburt's games. He uses it often.
#81 or The Alekhine for the Tournament Player. American Chess Promotions. ISBN 0-7134-1596-7.
I know we have gone into the Tate from the two pawns attack variation, but most, if not all players, won't go into these lines. Most of my opponents play Nc3 after 1 e4 Nf6. I think a good try to bring your opponent back into the alekhine defense is the Scandinavian variation. Even still this variation is very different from it. (1e4 Nf6 2Nc3 e5). I think e5 is best for white because taking just helps black equalize. You could always just defend the pawn huh? Anyway does anyone have some continuations or suggestions. Do you move the knight backwards or forward and what nest when you do move the knight on white's side.
LeifWulf wrote:
I am aware there is a Wikipedia page about all of this online. Don't just grab something from there, I want actual games and experience shown here. Have you ever played this?
Graham Burgess has a lot to say about Alekhine's defence in his "Mammoth Book". From Graham's definition, I think you have not defined Alekhine's Defence correctly, it is actually defined by only one move by each side!
I have played against it as white, without any knowledge about it, in rapid games. It has usually ended badly for me. My general approach was to chase the knight with pawns as directly as possible. Actually, looking at the database, it doesn't seem a bad approach (?!) It even has a name "B02 Alekhine's defence, two pawns' (Lasker's) attack". Burgess calls it "the Chase variation", and declares it "unusual", not sure if he means unusual good or unusual bad or just unusual 
.
Burgess describes the Four Pawns Attack as "megalomaniac" (not sure if that is good or bad...), the Modern as aiming "for a nagging edge", and the exchange variation as "solid but dangerous". He also discusses the 2. c3 variation, but dismisses it as "dull" although "popular with club players".
I'll probably not be using this defence as black, and will attempt the Modern variation, as white, in future. It seems the best according to standard opening principles, and it seems similar to the French (?), so you can (perhaps) use your knowledge of another (more regular!) opening. Burgess also mentions that the big danger for white is overextending his pawns, which the Modern avoids.
Burgess has seven pages on this opening, with several games and examples.
It has been quite some time away from this chat, but I finally have something to add that is worth talking about. I will not take credit whatsoever for this new information. On Youtube, the videos "A New Pawn Sacrifice in the Alekhine defence !!!!!!! immortal ideas of 2017" and "Crazy Gambit line against the Alekhine Defense" are very interesting lines within this opening for the black side and the white.
That Diagram is lines from the second video. There are four moves that black could possibly enact to go against this. As he states this is not a sound opening but who really cares.
As for the first video, Grandmaster Nick de Firmian analyzes this pawn sacrifice and the dangers/key aspects of the knight jump at 7...Nb4.
What do you top chess players thinking of these videos? And if not the videos just the moves themselves?
LeifWulf a écrit :
That Diagram is lines from the second video. There are four moves that black could possibly enact to go against this. As he states this is not a sound opening but who really cares.
The problem is that black's best moves are obvious, so there is little to hope here.
U can expect black go wrong (9...Qd7 was not obvious but even after 9...Nc6, black is fine, while the other moves where very easy to find), but why not playing something good instead?
If u want to gamble, why not playing poker and not chess?
Guys look at the transposition! This is such a wonderful opening