Alekhine's Defense = questionable?

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sndeww
Tubizien wrote:

Here's my experience/opinion with the Alekhine at +-2200 level: - The 4 pawns is the easiest to meet, scored very well - Against the exchange (exd6), I turned to the symmetrical exd6 answer with much better results than with the asymmetric cxd6?!. - Against the Modern Nf3 variation, I turned to Carlsen's choice : dxe5 followed by the solid c6. I get very good positions. I was crushed before this choice! - Against 2.Nc3, I play d5. Must be ready to go into a French Def. after 3. e5 Nfd7 - Against 2. d3 or 2. Qe2, simply 2...e5. is very good - What annoys me the most : 2.e5 Nd5 3.Nc3 variation. I don't like Nxc3 dxc3. Gives to much play for white! So I would play 3...Nb6. But I'm not convinced yet.

Interestingly enough, I have the exact same repertoire as you! Against sämisch 3.Nc3, I changed to 3...e6, giving nice results. Sometimes after Nxd5 exd5 I sac the d5 pawn for speedy development.

Against 2.Nc3 I go to Vienna with e5.

Tubizien
B1ZMARK a écrit :
Tubizien wrote:

Here's my experience/opinion with the Alekhine at +-2200 level: - The 4 pawns is the easiest to meet, scored very well - Against the exchange (exd6), I turned to the symmetrical exd6 answer with much better results than with the asymmetric cxd6?!. - Against the Modern Nf3 variation, I turned to Carlsen's choice : dxe5 followed by the solid c6. I get very good positions. I was crushed before this choice! - Against 2.Nc3, I play d5. Must be ready to go into a French Def. after 3. e5 Nfd7 - Against 2. d3 or 2. Qe2, simply 2...e5. is very good - What annoys me the most : 2.e5 Nd5 3.Nc3 variation. I don't like Nxc3 dxc3. Gives to much play for white! So I would play 3...Nb6. But I'm not convinced yet.

Interestingly enough, I have the exact same repertoire as you! Against sämisch 3.Nc3, I changed to 3...e6, giving nice results. Sometimes after Nxd5 exd5 I sac the d5 pawn for speedy development.

Against 2.Nc3 I go to Vienna with e5.

Yes, I also sometimes go to the Vienna against 2.Nc3, knowing that 3.f4 is very well met with 3...d5!

Your suggestion against the Sämisch is interesting. I will have a look at this e6 variation. 

Thanks for the tip. 👍

sndeww

Yes apparently Alekhine himself played it against sämisch. 

Tubizien
B1ZMARK a écrit :

Yes apparently Alekhine himself played it against sämisch. 

You are totally right. I just found this game, played in 1923.

Black didn't get any problems whatsoever. Seems like a solid choice. 👍

sndeww
complexanalysis1 wrote:

I remember bismark mentioning a tranpositions to an inferior caro from the alekhine

yeah , usually in the modern line after dxe5 Nxe5 and c6. Feels drawish and += at best, though

darkunorthodox88

strange Short would feel so strongly agaisnt a decent defense of this sort considering that he is arguably the strongest practitioner of the Queenside alekhine like line 1.d4 Nc6.

Wildekaart

It immediately challenges White's plans for the opening. It's direct and usually Black is better prepared than White because 1...Nf6 is not played that often anymore. However if you're not prepared as Black then it can become quite tricky.

just_training_bro

Actually there is a recent game from Navara vs Short where he played the Alekhine quite successfully https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/2388533/r2qkb1r/pp3bpp/n1p1pp2/3n4/3P1PP1/2NN4/PPP1B2P/R1BQ1RK1%20w%20kq%20-%200%2012

I started studying this opening a few days ago as a surprise opening for blitz but the more I look at it the better it seems. Virtually every line can be forced into a draw or a favorable endgame for black, still have 0 experience playing it over the board but will give it a try when I have the chance

NikkiLikeChikki
I just love the Alekhine. I almost always win when opponents go into the main lines. Trouble is, almost everyone plays Nc3 and I get sad.
null_day

it's playable, but you need to be precise in main variations

Matteothechesssguy

It didn’t work very well when I played it.

MisterOakwood

Say what you want, but those numbers coming from the Alekhine's defense speak for themselves...

Steven-ODonoghue
pfren wrote:.

3.e5 d4 is just fine for Black as long as he doesn't get greedy.

I'm not so sure about that.

3.e5 d4 4.exf6 dxc3 5.fxg7 cxd2+ 6.Bxd2 Bxg7 7.Qf3! white casles queenside next, and black's position is embarassing.

The chessable course on the Alekhine gives this line as best play

I don't know why anyone would want to enter this position as black.

sndeww
Steven-ODonoghue wrote:
pfren wrote:.

3.e5 d4 is just fine for Black as long as he doesn't get greedy.

I'm not so sure about that.

3.e5 d4 4.exf6 dxc3 5.fxg7 cxd2+ 6.Bxd2 Bxg7 7.Qf3! white casles queenside next, and black's position is embarassing.

The chessable course on the Alekhine gives this line as best play

I don't know why anyone would want to enter this position as black.

I remember, a long time ago, I looked at this on lichess engine. I remember it gave some Bxb2 followed by Qd4, which is the engine move of engine moves. 

I don't remember it now, and im too lazy to find it. But it was something like

 

Donnsteinz

If Alekhine played it on more than one occasion, it's not "questionable".

Donnsteinz

Only after 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 black should play 4...dxe5! 5.Nxe5 c6 or 5...g6, lest he allow a pawn recapture on e5 and have an awfully cramped game.

 

swarminglocusts

Tim Sawyer has a great book online. Called 1.e4...Nf6. I have been playing this opening in rapid and scored exceptionally well. The computer rates the opening as +.5- +.7 in most cases favoring white. If you are good at tactics and endgames you will crush other players. If you want to just get a taste of what the book is about you can skim the pages. The author goes through the main line and sidelines as they come up. If you don't know middle game theory or hypermodern theory then this opening is not for you.

sndeww
Donnsteinz wrote:

Only after 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 black should play 4...dxe5! 5.Nxe5 c6 or 5...g6, lest he allow a pawn recapture on e5 and have an awfully cramped game.

 

I'm not really convinced the 5...c6 line solves all of black's problems. I would not play it against a lower rated player, to be honest. White can just develop and have a good game. That is why I am currently learning a Sicilian. 

 

Steven-ODonoghue
B1ZMARK wrote:

I remember, a long time ago, I looked at this on lichess engine. I remember it gave some Bxb2 followed by Qd4, which is the engine move of engine moves. 

I don't remember it now, and im too lazy to find it. But it was something like

 

Fair enough. an engine can probably hold black's position but I agree with you that it isn't advisable for humans.

As white I'd just play 9.Bd3, followed by Ne2 and laugh at black because his position makes no sense, although I'm not checking this with an engine so that idea may be flawed.

I have to basically conclude that 3...d4 isn't fully playable unless black wants to defend that scary position. In a blitz game I think white wins that almost every time.

sndeww
Steven-ODonoghue wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

I remember, a long time ago, I looked at this on lichess engine. I remember it gave some Bxb2 followed by Qd4, which is the engine move of engine moves. 

I don't remember it now, and im too lazy to find it. But it was something like

 

Fair enough. an engine can probably hold black's position but I agree with you that it isn't advisable for humans.

As white I'd just play 9.Bd3, followed by Ne2 and laugh at black because his position makes no sense, although I'm not checking this with an engine so that idea may be flawed.

I have to basically conclude that 3...d4 isn't fully playable unless black wants to defend that scary position. In a blitz game I think white wins that almost every time.

I would probably take black, to be honest. I'm just that kind of weirdo XD