Anti-Fried Liver?

Shambo: 10. Ne5 Qd4 is not "very good for black", at best it is probably equal and I would say white should prefer it over Ng1.

As somebody above me, I highly favor the ulvestad variation. It gives black some great counterplay. You should check it out. Never play h6 (anti fried liver), it is a wasted move, because the fried liver attack can be countered in many better ways.

Here is a great lesson on the ulvestad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx-J71v3JkU

oh yeah, duh! ;-) What I don't like about this is that it stops Black developing his Knight to f6 or e7. Would you therefore recommend a later Na5?

I guess after 3...c5, White would play d2, aiming to support the Knight's advance to g5 by the c1 Bishop?

Thanks, Rooperi. For a novice like me, the Fritz variation looks very risky. Can you show an example of where White "gets it right"?

Thanks guys. OK, the Fritz and Traxler look risky and complicated for Black if Black is a novice like me. (The Traxler, for example, leaves White open to play 5.Nxf7, winning the Queen??)

So far as I can see, then, there are 3 main variations to consider if you are a novice:

First and last are equally good, chessoholicalien. However, I make the suggestion that the first is probably better for developmental purposes. Beware the last, as white usually builds up a strong centre.

If you're going to play the Two Knights Defence then a working knowledge of all three continuations is preferable:

5 .... Na5 (mainline)

5 .... Nd4 (Fritz)

5 .... b5 (Ulvestad's)

Only playing one line (especially OTB) will mean that opponents will "book up" for you more easily. Keep them on their toes, play them all.

Thanks, Nytik. I've found two more variations. The first is a variation of #1 above. What's your opinion on these two? Which do you think is best for Black? I'm guessing the second variation is better :

I think that last variation still runs into trouble after 6. Nxf7 Kxf7 8. Qf3+ and White will come out a pawn up.

I think the other lines seem to work and that Na5 is the key to equality in all of them.

Thanks, Grobe. I'd be interested in hearing Nytik's input too, but provisionally I think I'm adopting the moves below as my prefered defence to 4.Ng4.

This set-up achieves the following for Black:

1) Opens up long diagonals for both of his Bishops

2) Develops the g-Knight to its best square, f6

3) His King is only one move away from castling

4) White has doubled d-pawns, which Black can probably attack soon

5) Develops his other Knight (albeit not to an ideal square)

6) White is some way behind in development (but is ready to castle)

7) Puts the question to the white b5 Bishop

8) His e-pawn is not blocked by an opposing pawn

Its also possible to play 3.... Be7  ( Hungarian defense )

Thanks, NM Reb! The only problems with this I can see is that it prevents Black from putting his Knight onto its best square, f6. It also stops Black playing ...d5 anytime soon.

Well, I would certainly recommend c6 over Bd7. The problem with your line is 7. Qe2 which puts white back in the drivers seat, and this is the reason why Bd7 is inferior.

I think the easiest way to avoid the fried liver, something these people haven't been discussing, is to merely play the Italian opening. It usually plays hand in hand with the two knights defence. They almost always eventually get to the same middle game for most players.

 It only delays black playing ...Nf6, it doesnt prevent it. As for ....d5 for black in this opening its not usual anyway. The problem with playing black is that white usually has some advantage , no matter what you play. This is the nature of chess and white's first move advantage. If the person that is playing white is also a stronger player than you then you are going to suffer some and probably lose many more blacks than you win.

Thanks Nytik! That's true, I see that now. I'm relying then on most average players not seeing 7.Qe2 ;-)

To bear in mind too is that 6...c6 leaves Black down a pawn and with an isolated c-pawn. Does that make it worse than the tempo White gains after 6...Bd7 7.Qe2?

It only leaves black one pawn down, and with proper planning you won't find yourself lacking for too long... (Your advantage development-wise should secure your missing pawn and, if you're lucky, some extra material as well!)

Sorry, I spotted that too and fixed it in the original post.

Thanks, NM Reb. You're right, I guess I am looking for a line that gives Black *total equality* or a perfect defence while still allowing him to develop ideally, and it seems, on the basis of the above anyway, that such a line does not exist due to White's first move advantage...