Anyone know a good lesson on the Dutch/bird?

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RealTactics960

Title (for Dutch I would like a guide on the stonewall and the one where you fianchetto)

ThrillerFan

The Ditch and the Bird are nothing alike. The fact that in the Dutch, White has committed to 1.d4, the e4-square is weakened for White. In the Bird, Black has not committed to anything and could play ...d6 at some point and play for ...e5..

Best Source for the Stonewall is "Play the Stonewall Dutch" published by Quality Chess (copywrite 2020). Bird? Can't help you. The opening itself is trash.

RealTactics960

Really? Trash? I’ve played a few games, just winging it (pun absolutely intended) and I like it

RealTactics960

I need a lesson on here, or a link to that one

Pitiless_Pawn

The little bunting and ring-necked duck are some of my favorite Dutch birds!

RealTactics960

*blocks*

ThrillerFan
RealTactics960 wrote:

Really? Trash? I’ve played a few games, just winging it (pun absolutely intended) and I like it

Yes, really.

I have you by between 700 and 1000 rating points. I can safely tell you that I have far more experience than "a few games".

The Dutch can be viewed as risky as it opens up the King - a2-g8 diagonal and h5-e8 diagonal. So there needs to be a specific reason to play ...f5. In the Dutch, White has played d4. This weakens e4. Black can clamp on e4 with f5, Nf6, and after e6, d5!

In the Bird, Black has not committed to ...d5. He could play 1...d6. There is no "clamp" on e5. It also scores amongst the worst percentages for White at about 46% in major databases like Chessbase.

Many opening just don't work in reverse. The Sicilian and 1...e5 English both work because neither is based on a speculative idea. For those based on a speculative idea, like advancing the f-pawn, there is a more compelling reason to need something concrete to offset the weaknesses the move creates.

The Dutch has that specific benefit - clamp on e4 to the greatest effect possible.

The Bird does not have that benefit.

It is the same reason that most other openings work best in certain scenarios and not as a system.

The London works best against 1...d5, due to the weakening of e5 by black. It does not work as well against the KID or at all against the Modern due to e5.

The Catalan, Colle, and Kings Indian Attack only work when Black's LSB is hemmed in by ...e6, hence why the KIA works against the French and 2...e6 Sicilians, but not 2...d6 Sicilians or 1...e5.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5 is even called the "Anti-Colle" for good reason. White's only good move is 4.c4, and after 4...c6, you are in a Slav.

So yes, you cannot just wing it and say that an opening is great based on a few games against scrubs. If you don't understand the full basis of the opening, it is useless.

The Dutch, while risky, is a valid defense to d4. The Bird is just not!

RealTactics960

Got it. I will not use the bird in competitive play. I still think I’ll use it in casual, especially with lower rated opponents

Luskojs
Well, i would’nt say the bird is trash, i get good positions and its really fun, and if you think im not professional then you can look at the lichess database where Magnus played three games with the bird and he scored 3/3 against players like Wesley So, Therefore the bird aint trash
ThrillerFan
Luskojs wrote:
Well, i would’nt say the bird is trash, i get good positions and its really fun, and if you think im not professional then you can look at the lichess database where Magnus played three games with the bird and he scored 3/3 against players like Wesley So, Therefore the bird aint trash

Until you understand the laws of statistics that is. For a sample size to be valid requires a minimum of 30.

That goes for anything! If you are sampling guacamole, and asking people if they like it, and 1 person out of 7 say yes, you cannot validly say that 14% of people like guacamole because your sample size does not meet the laws of statistics.

If you take, say, 365chess.com, smaller than chessbase but bigger than most.

Sample size - 21,044 - meets the minimum 30.

White scores a whopping 47.65% (35% wins, 25.3% draws). That would be a fine score for Black. For White, THAT'S ATTROCIOUS!

Compare that to say, an opening I play - 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5, that scores 54.05% for White in the same database.

Yes, the Bird is Trash!