B3 and B6 good or bad?

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FM1127

B3 for white and B6 for black. Are these good or bad openings and why?

I personally love these openings and feel they can be used against everything.  However, ive read many conflictiing opinions about these two openinngs.  

DrSpudnik

Once more:

Back around 1978 or so, I thought it would be really a simple (lazy) way to prepare a repetoire by playing 1. b3 and 1...b6 against anything. 1.b3 is OK (actually it seemed better as 1.Nf3 2.b3) but 1...b6 really sucked something awful. After two moves, you don't have any King-side development and you really aren't threatening anything that can't be defended. After a year or so of defending cramped, lifeless positions, I gave up and went back to open games with great results. The one thing I learned from it was how to defend horrible positions, so I guess it wasn't an entire waste. But generally, avoid 1...b6.

FM1127
DrSpudnik wrote:

Once more:

Back around 1978 or so, I thought it would be really a simple (lazy) way to prepare a repetoire by playing 1. b3 and 1...b6 against anything. 1.b3 is OK (actually it seemed better as 1.Nf3 2.b3) but 1...b6 really sucked something awful. After two moves, you don't have any King-side development and you really aren't threatening anything that can't be defended. After a year or so of defending cramped, lifeless positions, I gave up and went back to open games with great results. The one thing I learned from it was how to defend horrible positions, so I guess it wasn't an entire waste. But generally, avoid 1...b6.

I use both B3 and B6 on my chesstime app on my phone.  I have been using both these openings most of the time and have been having very good success so far.  I dont feel that B6 is all that bad.  I seem to be attacking from the start.  

Irinasdaddy

If you simply must play a fianchetto right off the bat, do it as g3 or g6, not b3 or b6.  

FM1127
Irinasdaddy wrote:

If you simply must play a fianchetto right off the bat, do it as g3 or g6, not b3 or b6.  

why?  Arent those more complicated in theory?

DrSpudnik

" I seem to be attacking from the start."

How? It doesn't attack anything. e4 can easily be protected.

Irinasdaddy

In both instances you are developing the weaker of your two bishops first.  As white you can compensate for that somewhat because you move first, but as black, it's just a non-starter.  As Spudnik said, after two moves you have gained no space and have no kingside development.  Your success may well be due to playing against opponents that are inexperienced in defending against such an opening, instead of the viability of the opening itself.  

FM1127
DrSpudnik wrote:

" I seem to be attacking from the start."

How? It doesn't attack anything. e4 can easily be protected.

Well i admitt on not at a very strong level yet but i did some reasearch about these openings and on your tube and GM smirnov has an excellent video on this opening and based on his vid it seems very solid and based on my games on my chesstime app ive had good success.  However, im not playing against super strong players yet as im not that strong.  

FM1127

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEJdebvXQY

FM1127

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ACdKjp4QQ

FM1127

Based on his videos i have been under the impression its a very solid opening for black.  I like it better than G6 because B6 is aiming at whites king side from the start.  How is G6 a better opening than B6?  Im trying to understand the difference here.

toiyabe

NimzoLarsen is definitely playable, but 1.Nf3 first is preferred to prevent e5.  Owen's or any of the other 1...b6 variants are garbage unless you can transpose to QID or something.  

Irinasdaddy

GMs are GMs for a reason.  For the most part, they could turn poop into daisies if they needed to on a chessboard.  Just because a GM can make an opening work doesn't mean that it's good for Joe Everyman.  

On chess.com, 1. Na3 is a 100% win for white.  Does that make it a sound opening?   

FM1127

Well based on his video he makes it sound like B6 IS just as good as G6.  In fact he mentions just that in the begining of the part 1 video.

Irinasdaddy

Look, if you like the opening, then by all means use it.  It's not really possible to throw away the game on the first move.  As white, I love playing 1. f4, even though it's probably the 6th-strongest opening move for white.  From a chess theory standpoint, 1. b6 is weak.  That doesn't make it entirely unplayable.  It's like playing 6-5 as a starting hand in poker.  It's far from the strongest hand, but it's still winnable.  

At this point, you've gained all you can gain from this thread.  You're looking more to publicly defend your opening, instead of listening to the advice of others.  Time to move onto another thread I think.   

kiwi-inactive

Personally, I would not open 1.b6 as black as an opening response, I'd rather move a centre pawn or develop a knight. I don't feel b6 commands enough respect or authority. 

FM1127
Irinasdaddy wrote:

Look, if you like the opening, then by all means use it.  It's not really possible to throw away the game on the first move.  As white, I love playing 1. f4, even though it's probably the 6th-strongest opening move for white.  From a chess theory standpoint, 1. b6 is weak.  That doesn't make it entirely unplayable.  It's like playing 6-5 as a starting hand in poker.  It's far from the strongest hand, but it's still winnable.  

At this point, you've gained all you can gain from this thread.  You're looking more to publicly defend your opening, instead of listening to the advice of others.  Time to move onto another thread I think.   

no im not trying to defend im just discussing it.  I appreciate everyones feedback.  i still have a lot ot learn.

csalami10

These are not bad openings, but if you want to improve as a chess player, you should play the classical openings first, like the Ruy lopez. (for both sides)
They teach you a lot about chess. With moves like b3, you limit your chess experience, you will play the same type of positions, and although you will have a good opening, but they won't improve your chess understanding and calculation skills.
 

Pooya-Khodadadi

Good point Csalami.... Can you please name a few more openings which you would suggest to be used? 

DrSpudnik
ChessplayerW wrote:

just play 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 3.e4 Bb7. That's mutch better


This is much better, because white is = in K-side development and his pawns are a bit loosey-goosey in the center.