gameknight20111 wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Honestly I somehow managed to be 800 uscf by knowing nothing except basic opening principles and the two overkill mates
well I guess your super lucky
or your just good
Beginners SHOULD learn openings
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Feb 8, 2021
0
#46
anyhow i am just bad, my best win streak is 4. and my profile can say the rest
https://www.chess.com/member/gameknight20111
Feb 8, 2021
0
#49
gameknight20111 wrote:
I have to admit I am still a beginner and only learned three openings lol. but when I just got chess.com I just did it to beat my dad and friends, since their great at chess but look at me, couple weeks in and I am still trash, but I did improve.
3 openings is a good amount. But make sure they are no something like this.
Many of those players who give that advice are referring to more heavy chess theory, but general chess openings should be learned as soon as one starts chess.
Feb 8, 2021
0
#51
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
gameknight20111 wrote:
I have to admit I am still a beginner and only learned three openings lol. but when I just got chess.com I just did it to beat my dad and friends, since their great at chess but look at me, couple weeks in and I am still trash, but I did improve.
3 openings is a good amount. But make sure they are no something like this.
this is one of the 3
Feb 8, 2021
0
#52
gameknight20111 wrote:
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
gameknight20111 wrote:
I have to admit I am still a beginner and only learned three openings lol. but when I just got chess.com I just did it to beat my dad and friends, since their great at chess but look at me, couple weeks in and I am still trash, but I did improve.
3 openings is a good amount. But make sure they are no something like this.
this is one of the 3
then you're the coolest beginner I've ever seen
Feb 8, 2021
0
#53
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
gameknight20111 wrote:
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
gameknight20111 wrote:
I have to admit I am still a beginner and only learned three openings lol. but when I just got chess.com I just did it to beat my dad and friends, since their great at chess but look at me, couple weeks in and I am still trash, but I did improve.
3 openings is a good amount. But make sure they are no something like this.
this is one of the 3
then you're the coolest beginner I've ever seen
thank you
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
ShamusMcFlannigan wrote:
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
ShamusMcFlannigan wrote:
A few problems with beginners learning openings
1) Since they have little positional understanding, they may just end up memorizing moves instead of learning the ideas behind them. Openings can become a crutch for them, especially if they neglect other parts of the game.
2) A lot of other players won't follow theory and then your just left on your own anyway.
3) Falling into these traps can improve your tactical vision. Mistakes are part of the process.
4)Players may accidently equate their success playing the same opening trap over and over with their actual skill level.
Play what you want, but I know a few players that haven't had an original thought in a long time and are clueless if taken out of book.
I don't understand why people assume that beginners tend to memorize move order only while they don't understand the game. It's ridiculous In my opinion. It's like memorize the whole process of solving a calculus question when you don't even understand the meaning of the mathematics symbols.
I start playing chess 3 months ago and only did that once when I am at 1000 elo (chess.com) and I gave up in 1 hour.
All in all I literally just don't understand why learning opening will eventually drive beginners into only memorizing moves necessarily.
The second thing you mentioned is very true. That's also why learn a few openings won't let beginners freak out when playing against other stuff, cuz there are always players playing nonsense opening moves against them. They will build their experience in those games.
Also, nothing wrong with learning from mistakes, even you didn't mess up in the first 5 moves, you will still mess up in the next 5 moves if you're not good enough, thus you still gonna learn something.
The last thing you said is very critical, it really depends on how the player treats chess game. But it's actually no way to stop them from prep a trappy line if they want to. Even you tell them no to do it.
Theory builds on itself. It can be difficult to understand a seemingly innocent pawn move until you realize it is designed to prevent an entirely different subvariation. You may not realize why that variation is typically avoided until you learn how the other player has a well known sacrifice a few moves down the road. You may not understand why that sacrifice is so good until (and it goes on and on). Since you can't reasonably learn all of this in an afternoon, some people memorize moves and don't understand the position.
Many beginner players also seem to want to memorize theory in the sicilian, semi slav, KID, etc. Once you go down some of those sicilian paths, if you don't know theory you prob won't make it out alive and you won't realize why you've lost either, so they usually memorize even more theory. If you wanted to memorize more classical openings, then you could easily find these moves over the board by learning ideas and playing on opening principals. Using ideas, you will still know what to do when your opponent deviates instead of trying to play the same series of moves against everything.
Edit: I'm not against trappy lines. There are plenty of decent players who love to play gambits etc. But I've had people resign in the first few moves after I didn't fall into some pretty well known traps. In that case, I'd assume they were looking for a quick win and didn't know what to do when I didn't fall for a trick.
What!? it's too crazy. I doubt those beginners are not human beings on this planet. The reason you think why people will just memorize moves is very reasonable tho.
I agree, it is a bit crazy, and yet there are plenty of players who memorize line after line of moves looking for that silver bullet.
Again, people can do what they want. I wouldn't just dismiss the advice given by the majority of GMs and IMs though.
B1ZMARK wrote:
Honestly I somehow managed to be 800 uscf by knowing nothing except basic opening principles and the two overkill mates
What about the point value of the pieces? If you have that, doesn't surprise me at all.
Also, what are the two overkill mates?
Feb 8, 2021
0
#56
catmaster0 hat geschrieben:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Honestly I somehow managed to be 800 uscf by knowing nothing except basic opening principles and the two overkill mates
What about the point value of the pieces? If you have that, doesn't surprise me at all.
Also, what are the two overkill mates?
I knew the point value of pieces, but I remained convinced of the superiority of a rook over two pieces.
Two overkill mates: staircase and queen+king
B1ZMARK wrote:
catmaster0 hat geschrieben:
B1ZMARK wrote:
Honestly I somehow managed to be 800 uscf by knowing nothing except basic opening principles and the two overkill mates
What about the point value of the pieces? If you have that, doesn't surprise me at all.
Also, what are the two overkill mates?
I knew the point value of pieces, but I remained convinced of the superiority of a rook over two pieces.
Two overkill mates: staircase and queen+king
Yeah, that seems reasonable to me.
Feb 8, 2021
0
#59
FutureGM_Casper wrote:
I kinda agree with you.
I think beginner can learn openings which are straight forward (not sth like Ruy Lopez or Indian Game or Sicilian)
QG, Danish Gambit, 4knight game, Scotch Game should be very good option for them.
Cuz beginners are very creative and often play nonsense moves. Having straightforward opening ideas allows them to not play bad moves in the first 3-5 moves at the same time obeying opening principles.
Idk why people like to say "beginners should not learn openings until 1500" I doubt that those people themselves learn openings before 1500. Seriously? How much time beginner has to spend remembering 1.5 moves 1.d4 d5 2.c4? 3 seconds?
No players in chess.com doesn't learn any opening and still be able to reach 1500
SICILIAN GOOD SICILIAN FTW
Honestly I somehow managed to be 800 uscf by knowing nothing except basic opening principles and the two overkill mates
well I guess your super lucky