Best Variations against QG?

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EternalChess

Usually when i play against the queens gambit my position always ends up crap.. I usually do stuff like..

Also sometimes i do Bb4 then c5 but i never get a good position out of it.. what variations do you guys think is good for black and gets a good position out of it?

checkmateisnear

LavaRook

Lol there are a lot but how about trying out the Slav proper (1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4 Bf5)

I am also looking into this opening atm for when I don't really want to play something more sharp like the Benoni. You get very solid positions out of the opening and I feel that in this opening you don't go into a theory overload + you can find many new ideas, your own novelties, etc so theres lots of room for creativity :)

Another thing which is appealing about the Slav proper is that a misstep doesn't result you getting owned unlike more sharp/theory intensive openings like the Semi-Slav Botvinnik variation or the Anti Moscow Gambit.

TheGrobe

I've played around with the semi-slav, but I always struggle with the bad light-squared bishop and just generally end up feeling like my position is constrained.  I've thought about the Grünfeld, but then I'm a classicist so I worry that it won't be my style either.  I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts as well as I dislike facing 1. d4.

Flamma_Aquila

I can't stand the QG. I guess I always feel like the white player knows better than I do what is going on, and the closed symmetrical positions are not my strong suit.

I just avoid it and play the nimzo-QID.

AtahanT

Slav proper is good stuff. Not all that much theory really but it's solid, counter attacking and the lines are not a minefield in general.

AtahanT
Eric_C wrote:

The propper mainline slav results in some pretty sharp positions.

Why not try the a6 Slav?


The a6 slav is very unintuative so you need to know more theory. Also the mainline slav doesn't get sharp until 10+ moves and your general club player is not going to know more then that.

Sceadungen

I got a bit hacked off with the constant use of the Slav against me, so I started to play the exchange variation, just to bore people.

I have had great results with it, I love to hear the sufferings of Slav players myself.

AtahanT
Sceadungen wrote:

I got a bit hacked off with the constant use of the Slav against me, so I started to play the exchange variation, just to bore people.

I have had great results with it, I love to hear the sufferings of Slav players myself.


That might be because slav players never face the exchange so they have no real prep for it. Black has good options to unbalance the position at his liking. The exchange variation is not more challenging then any other line in the slav.

Shakaali

The position you reached in your originanl diagram after move 6 is well known from Panov-Botvinik attack of the Caro-Kann (1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e6 6. Nf3 Bb4) so it's completely playable for both colours altough not necessarily completely equal and certainly not dead. You could also keep the symmetry little longer with 5. Nc6 when the position is very close to being equal but again certainly not dead.

checkmateisnear
AtahanT wrote:

Slav proper is good stuff. Not all that much theory really but it's solid, counter attacking and the lines are not a minefield in general.


I'm pretty sure that the main line of the slav proper is considered to be sharp.

AtahanT

Yes the proper-proper mainline is sharp but I have never seen anyone play the "real" mainline with 6. Ne5; neither online nor at the club; ever. A simple but effective response is the sokolov defense with Nd7-Nb6 instead of going farther into the messy mainline. Most people play the dutch variation with 6. e3 (which isn't difficult to play) if they even get this far into theory at all.

checkmateisnear

True, but generally in positions of the slav the position is +=/= White has pressure, Black has no chances to win.

AtahanT
checkmateisnear wrote:

True, but generally in positions of the slav the position is +=/= White has pressure, Black has no chances to win.


You generally can pull off a c5/e5 break and you're just fine just like in the caro-kann. The positions give both sides chances. All defenses for black after

1.d4 d5 have approximately equal chance for a black win, the difference is that the slav gives white the least chance to win. That's pretty good I think and that is why so many queens gambit players absolutely hate the slav. It's like the sicilian of 1.e4.

checkmateisnear

c5/e5 breaks usually don't happen without some other concession. Take the lasker's defense, after c5 (e5 is usally too weakening) White is still better and Black can hardly hope to win. In the slav mainline with 6.Ne5 the bishop sacrifice also doesn't give Black many chances.
I think the only line where Black can really hope for winning chances is the semi-slav. Also the slav isn't quite like the sicilian of d4(I'd say the nimzo would be closer). 1.d4 does score 1% higher than e4.

AtahanT
checkmateisnear wrote:

c5/e5 breaks usually don't happen without some other concession. Take the lasker's defense, after c5 (e5 is usally too weakening) White is still better and Black can hardly hope to win. In the slav mainline with 6.Ne5 the bishop sacrifice also doesn't give Black many chances.
I think the only line where Black can really hope for winning chances is the semi-slav. Also the slav isn't quite like the sicilian of d4(I'd say the nimzo would be closer). 1.d4 does score 1% higher than e4.


Well I think you are not thinking about the goody line here :-)

As I said above in the main line slav black can opt for 6. Ne5 Nd7 7. Nxc4 Nb6. These lines aren't hard to play and black doesn't really stand worse here.

LavaRook
checkmateisnear wrote:

c5/e5 breaks usually don't happen without some other concession. Take the lasker's defense, after c5 (e5 is usally too weakening) White is still better and Black can hardly hope to win. In the slav mainline with 6.Ne5 the bishop sacrifice also doesn't give Black many chances.
I think the only line where Black can really hope for winning chances is the semi-slav. Also the slav isn't quite like the sicilian of d4(I'd say the nimzo would be closer). 1.d4 does score 1% higher than e4.


In the Semi-Slav though, Black must be prepared to know loads and loads of theory to play accurately in the Botvinnik and Anti Moscow variations. He can avoid all this with 5...Nbd7 or 5...Be7, but this isn't a Semi-Slav-its the QGD Cambridge Springs Variation,(5...Be7 is a QGD Orthodox in which c6 has been played a bit early)

checkmateisnear

Black is doing fine in the main lines of the botvinnik. the anti-moscow gambit I'm not so sure.

Actually after 6.Ne5 Nd7 7.Nxc4 Nb6 Black has almost no chances to win and white still has a small edge 

AtahanT
checkmateisnear wrote:

Black is doing fine in the main lines of the botvinnik. the anti-moscow gambit I'm not so sure.

Actually after 6.Ne5 Nd7 7.Nxc4 Nb6 Black has almost no chances to win and white still has a small edge 


Actually after 11. dxe5 or 10. Nxd7 Nxd7 11. e4 Bg6 12. Be3 Qb6 black is the only one playing for a win. These lines are no problem really. Not only that, anyone below master level won't know any of this any way. They will get lost before you do. The slav is wonderful.

checkmateisnear

I don't see how Black could be playing for a win in either of those lines