Black openings for beginners like KIA?

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i-blunder-every-move

I learned KIA with 1.e4 a few days ago and have been trying it out. Although I didn’t really know the exact move order, I really liked the position I got. I felt that my king was very safe from attack unless I blundered badly. What I wanna ask is that if I want to achieve the similar position with black, what should I do? Should I just play 1. e4 e5 and try to do the same thing? 

Here is one of my game. I really like my pawn structure here. Yes I’m low rated and probably shouldn’t focus on the opening but I want to get a good position that I can play in comfortably.

 

ThrillerFan

Actually, you blundered badly here and Black simply missed it.  You ought to play something simpler than the KIA.

You won basically because of Black, not anything spectacular that you did.  He leaves his knight hanging on move 13, and fails to take your hanging bishop on h3 on move 21.

 

Rather than working on openings, you should be working on not hanging pieces.

 

i-blunder-every-move
ThrillerFan wrote:

Actually, you blundered badly here and Black simply missed it.  You ought to play something simpler than the KIA.

You won basically because of Black, not anything spectacular that you did.  He leaves his knight hanging on move 13, and fails to take your hanging bishop on h3 on move 21.

 

Rather than working on openings, you should be working on not hanging pieces.

 

Thanks for the advice ThrillerFan. I just learned at the beginning of this month that there are 3 stages of the game: Opening, Middlegame, Endgame. I want to approach it step by step by learning each phase first. So now I want to learn an opening before moving on to the next phase. Should I change my approach?

Eipgo

In fact, opening is the last phase you should focus on. At your level, just very basic knowledge of opening principles is more than enough. It is much more useful to improve middlegame (especially tactics) and basic endgame play, rather than trying to learn openings. You are much more likely going to win or lose due to poor middlegame play rather than the opening.

tygxc

@3

"Should I change my approach?"
++ Yes. Chess should be learned backwards: from simple to complex:
first endgames, then middle games, last openings.

nighteyes1234
i-blunder-every-move wrote:

. I just learned at the beginning of this month that there are 3 stages of the game: Opening, Middlegame, Endgame.

Who said so?

You can tell its an entertainer..likely someone who gets paid per view and will say anything.

An educational approach would not leave someone hanging like that.

 

yetanotheraoc
i-blunder-every-move wrote:

What I wanna ask is that if I want to achieve the similar position with black, what should I do? Should I just play 1. e4 e5 and try to do the same thing? 

After 1.e4 black cannot really get a KIA (sic) setup. If white plays aggressively black is always one tempo short. As black, the King's Indian can be played after 1.d4 or 1.c4 or 1.Nf3. But after 1.e4, black needs to pick a different opening.

  • Pirc 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 -- here 5...e5 just loses, 5...O-O is better but after 6.Bd3 or 6.Be2 (not to mention 6.e5!?) 6...e7-e5 is still not playable. Black usually tries for ...c7-c5.
  • Hanham Philidor move order 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nd7 4.Bc4 c6 5.O-O -- here 5...g6 just loses, 5...Be7 is necessary but a little unpleasant for black.
  • Hanham modern move order 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.Bc4 -- here 5...g6 just loses, 5...Be7 is necessary, better than the Philidor move order version but still not so easy for black. The Hanham is not much like the King's Indian Attack either.

It's okay though. For learning purposes it's probably better not to play the exact same setup every game with white and black. The more different kinds of middlegames you see, the more you learn.

jmpchess12
i-blunder-every-move wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

Actually, you blundered badly here and Black simply missed it.  You ought to play something simpler than the KIA.

You won basically because of Black, not anything spectacular that you did.  He leaves his knight hanging on move 13, and fails to take your hanging bishop on h3 on move 21.

 

Rather than working on openings, you should be working on not hanging pieces.

 

Thanks for the advice ThrillerFan. I just learned at the beginning of this month that there are 3 stages of the game: Opening, Middlegame, Endgame. I want to approach it step by step by learning each phase first. So now I want to learn an opening before moving on to the next phase. Should I change my approach?

 

What you should do is learn all three phases of the game to a certain competency and then level up your chess skills as necessary. I disagree with the advice of learning chess backwards as theoretical endgames you never get to play are as useless as opening theory you never get to play. In general the middlegame is where most of the magic in chess happens but it also requires you to be able to get to a decent middlegame out of the opening and be able to convert the winning endgames. 

At the beginning what you want is to develop your pieces using good opening principles, take hanging pieces while avoiding hanging your own, and be able to convert a decisive material advantage. My guess is mastering those three skills would take someone to ~1200-1400 on this site. Then you'll start needing to know the major plans of opening.

General advice is to play 1.e4 and classical lines as a beginner as it is easiest to follow good opening principles in this way. I don't believe in rating gating openings as I think people learn best playing chess they're excited about. 

ThrillerFan
i-blunder-every-move wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

Actually, you blundered badly here and Black simply missed it.  You ought to play something simpler than the KIA.

You won basically because of Black, not anything spectacular that you did.  He leaves his knight hanging on move 13, and fails to take your hanging bishop on h3 on move 21.

 

Rather than working on openings, you should be working on not hanging pieces.

 

Thanks for the advice ThrillerFan. I just learned at the beginning of this month that there are 3 stages of the game: Opening, Middlegame, Endgame. I want to approach it step by step by learning each phase first. So now I want to learn an opening before moving on to the next phase. Should I change my approach?

 

Yes, Opening should be last, not first.

Right now, with the opening moves, you should follow three very basic concepts:

1) Fight for control of central squares.  If White plays, say, 1.e4, controlling d5 and f5, play 1...e5, not because of any theory, but because it takes control of d4 and f4.

2) Do not move the same piece multiple times in the opening unless the piece is attacked and threatened.

3) Do not move your queen out early.

 

You say you played 3 months.  You are still at least a year away before opening theory should even remotely come into consideration.  How can you figure out what to do with 32 pieces if you don't know what to do with less than half the pieces on the board, and before you know basic tactics?

 

Endgames should come first.  Starting with fewer pieces and working up.  King and 1 pawn vs K.  K+Q vs K.  K+R vs K.  K+R+P vs K+R.  K and many P's each.  King and many P's and a N each.  K+N vs K+ 1 or 2 P's.  K and many P's and a B each.  K+B vs K and 1 or 2 P's.  King and many P's and a B vs King and many P's and a N.  Rook endings with many pawns.  Queen endings with many pawns.  There are others too!

 

Then also forks, skewers, pins, the x-ray tactic, deflection, interference, the in-between move, discovered attacks, etc.

 

Then various strategies like pawn structures, opposition, shouldering, creating a plan, etc.

 

You have a long ways to go before openings should be on your mind.

i-blunder-every-move

Wow! Thanks for being so supportive, everyone. I really appreciate it.

maafernan

Hi!  Play KID to meet 1.d4 and Pirc to meet 1.e4 and you will enter familiar positions to you. In fact KIA is a kind of reversed KID with tempo up.

Good luck!