Black vs. 1. Nf3

I've been playing black against 1. Nf3 a couple of times, and I don't know how to attack this. I've played 1....c5 to prevent d4 and invite to sicillian defence, but then white just fianchettoes his bishop. Then I've tried to play 1...Nf6 2...g6 3....Bg7 4...0-0 but after these moves I was lost again.

Obviously I could just play for equality, but that's not my style, I want the advantage. 

What is the best way to meet 1. Nf3 ??

What's the strategic ideas, for both white and black??

Where is its weaknesses?

I know d5 can be played, but I would prefer to avoid Queen's Gambit since everyone got some secret little surprise in "famous"openings

Thanks for your answers

A few things wrong with this:

1. You stumped at move 1?

2. What exactly are you trying to "attack"?

3. What exactly is your "style"?  Let me guess...youre an agressive/tactical/attacking player?

4. "What are the strategic ideas" for white and black?  Its move 1.  Follow opening principles.

5. "Where is its weakness"?  Again...its move #1

6. Why are you making the game so hard?

Possibly helpful:
Beating Unusual Openings by Richard Palliser (2006)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627072813/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen107.pdf
Grandmaster Repertoire 19 - Beating Minor Openings by Victor Mikhalevski
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/BeatingMinorOpenings-excerpt.pdf
http://www.davidsmerdon.com/?p=1888
Attacking the English/Reti
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7608.pdf

1.Nf3 (like 1.c4) is a transpositional move.

It would be useful to know what u play on 1.d4...

What a joke!  You want an advantage after 1.Nf3 as Black?  PA-LEEZ!

If there was a line that gave Black the advantage after 1.Nf3, Kramnik would never be playing it!  You're playing Black, fool!  You have to fight for equality first.  Only after that, and a subsequent mistake by White, can you play for the win!

That's about as bad as a time when this 1700 rated clown at the World Open comes into the book store, sees myself and a few others that he recognized from the tournament hall in higher sections than him, and proceeds to ask us for a Refutation of the Queen's Gambit!  Like there is some way to force a win with Black after 1.d4 d5 2.c4.  Again I say, PA-LEEZ!

Get a clue!  Black doesn't get the advantage early on in the game of chess!

1Nf3 is a very slippery move. Against 1...c5 white can go into the Sicilian or symmetric English. Against combinations of d5 and Nf6 white can keep his cards close to his chest depending on black's response; either going for a Colle/London or c4 systems.

The downside for white I believe is he rules out the more forceful Nc3 Queens Gambit lines if he goes for c4. Arguably the London etc are also a concession in also not making the most of the first move.

From the black perspective I believe 1Nf6 b6 is a good move. It's not only different but white can't play the best line against b6 he could if for example against 1e4 b6.

Black has to be patient and just play chess IMO.

 You are like 1200, so it doesn't matter. Soon enough @FishEyedFools will post his lengthy opening principles list. Just use that and you will be fine. And if Black could gain an advantage against 1.Nf3 in one line, then Kramnik wouldn't be playing it- and he is 100x the strength of us. You cannot gain an advantage against any main move just because you want to. 

This post is not worthy of my Opening Principles list.

ThrillerFan has explained it well. First you have to think about equalizing as Black, then you can start turning over that equal position to an advantage for you.

However, to give some advice on what to play, I'd suggest you try out the Romanishin Variation (A11 in the ECO code), which is a setup against the English, but many 1.Nf3 players are looking to play the English, so definitely worth a punt. You'll just have to tweak the move order slightly (not really a problem since the RV is a system to all intents and purposes). Against 1.c4 you play 1...e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 a6!? 4.Bg2 b5 5.0-0 (5.cxb5 axb5 6.Nd4 c6 7.Nxb5 cxb5 8.Bxa8 d5 scores very heavily for Black thanks to White's difficulties in developing his pieces) 5...Bb7, followed by the setup Nc6, Qb6, Be7, d6, 0-0 (not necessarily in that order).

Against 1.Nf3, you can either try to wait for White to play c4 before playing ...b5  (1.Nf3 e6 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 a6 4.0-0 [4.c4 b5] 4...Be7 5.c4 b5), or you can launch it immediately: 1.Nf3 e6 2.g3 b5. Either way is perfectly fine for Black. And the great thing about the RV is that it throws the English/Reti players out of their comfort zone.

1. Nf3 has no inherent weaknesses, it's kind of a waiting move, but unlike 1. a3, black is pretty much forced to commit to a strategy because of the center-ward development of the knight.  The problem is you don't know whether white is trying to support a delayed center build, or invite black to over-commit to the center and then be undermined.

I play 1. Nf3 as a standard opening, and I've seen 1. ..d5, 1. ..Nf6, and 1. ..c5 played most often against it.  I think the latter two are tougher for white to deal with, though all would usually be met with 2. c4.  Another move which I think has some potential is 1. ..b5, grabbing some queenside space and preparing a fianchetto targeting the f3 knight.

The main thing about the Reti is that there's no "safe" way for black to approach it.  White will gain some advantage somewhere on the board, black's only option is to seek counterplay by accepting certain positional weaknesses in exchange for attacking lines.  Properly played, the Reti Opening should result in very few draws.  Black has to look to win, not just endure, which means thoughts of "equality" should be dismissed.

Jeg gider fandme ikke det pis her. Jeg spørger om hjælp fordi jeg uorienteret møder Reti opening mod en fra den lokale skakklub, og jeg aner ikke hvad jeg skal stille op. Så jeg har af venner fået anbefalet disse forums og hvad får jeg i hovedet? SVINERI! Man kalder mig en nybegynder, en joke, tror I jeg kan bruge det til noget som helst? TROR I JEG SNAKKEDE HØJT OM ET PROBELM, HVIKET JEG SJÆLDENT GØR, FOR AT FÅ DET LORT DER I HOVEDET??? Hvad forventer I at jeg kan bruge det til? Det er satme sidste gang jeg bruger forums til noget som helst. Jeg ville hellere analysere det for mig selv, men da nogle af mine venner også er spejlblanke overfor det, kunne jeg lige så godt poste det her, I HÅB OM HJÆLP! Ikke i håb om at blive sværtet til med ubrugeligt sludder. Skam jer tabere. Hvis I er interesserede om hvad dette betyder, kan I oversætte det fra sproget DANSK hvis i kan huske de 5 bogstaver. 

And now you forgot how to type in English?

Youre admitting you dont know what to do on move "2"?

What kind of repsonses did you expect?

Så, så, tag nu det bara lite stille og rolig. Icke hidse sig op så frygtelig. Laes hvad jeg skriver om Romanisjin-varianten. Den är meget god - jag har spillet den mange ganger mot starke spillere og kun tabt med den en gang (og den gangen enbart på grund af tidsnöd). Och du ska nog klare at knipse din klubkamerad på nesen hans hvis du spiller den!

We look at your question, and assume you are a beginner because it is very vague- you want an advantage for Black after move 1. Then we look at your games/rating and identify you as a beginner. then we tell you that the question is moronic and still try to answer it. We all want you to improve, or gain an advantage after move 1, but that will not happen by asking these questions. 

Or in you language: 

Vi ser på dit spørgsmål, og antager, at du er en nybegynder, fordi det er meget vagt. Du vil have en fordel for Black after move 1. Så ser vi på dine spil / rating og identificerer dig som en nybegynder. så fortæller vi dig, at spørgsmålet er moronisk og stadig forsøger at svare på det. Vi ønsker alle, at du forbedrer eller får en fordel efter flyt 1, men det sker ikke ved at stille disse spørgsmål.

To answer your question, one of the most solid systems you can play against the Reti or KIA is a slav with you bishop on f5 or g4. Then normal development will get you a playable position. i.e. 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 c6 3.g3 Bf5 4.Bg2 Nf6 5.0-0 e6 6.d4 Nbd7 7.Nc3 Be7 8.Re1 0-0. and you have decent position, but not an advantage- that simply is not possible.   

Despite the great Emanuel Lasker being behind this system of development, I would advise against it. It's too static and inflexible for Black. You basically put your pieces on what looks like sensible squares (against any opening!), hoping that White somehow will play into your hands.
Furthermore, a Reti player is extremely unlikely to play an early d4 against this (or any other) setup. Typically White leaves the pawn on d3, takin the sting out of Black's light-squared bishop which will remain out of the game for a long time.

Does it really make sense to give someone "flack" (e. g. "... You're playing Black, fool! ...") for asking a question "in the vein of the question every beginner asks"?

@Fisheyedfools LOL, every nutjob thinks they're an aggressive and sacrificial player.

@Kmatta the OP is higher rated then you.

@ThrillerFan you're a jerk. You should be ashamed of yourself. But you're right and I'm going to re-write your comment without sounding like an arrogant douche.

You can't get an advantage as black. If there was a line that gave black the advantage then Kramnik or any GM wouldn't be playing it. As black you need to play for equality. You can only play for the win if white makes a mistake.

I took out his story because it's mostly just him boasting about his rating and thinking he's a god at chess.

Absolutely it makes sense.  Whne ypu post a question that has been asled a billion times, and do not take the time to research it first?  When you ask the question "I dont know what to do on move 1?"  

How many more times will this same question be asked?  

Why does every beginner/low rated person always think its openings they need to work on?

"I drop pieces...I miss simple tactics...I dont know what to do on move 1...Do i need to study openings?"