Bogo-Indian

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Arcanus_Lupus

In order to continue studying this opening, I have upgraded to premium membership to use as much of this website's resources as possible.  I would appreciate it if people would join the group I just made: http://www.chess.com/groups/view/bogo-indian-defense-group

Also, I created a thematic tournament featuring the bogo: http://www.chess.com/tournament/bogo-indian3

day_widni69
Arcanus_Lupus wrote:

Surely somebody knows something.

You have 'anus' in your name, sir.

2mooroo
[COMMENT DELETED]
Snar

there is a new group on the bogo indian:

http://www.chess.com/groups/view/bogo-indian-defense-group

if you are interested in the bogo, join this group, once we get enough people, we will do team matches, vote chess etc.

plutonia

Thanks Estragon.

As I'm new to the Indian complex for now I'll try to understand the Bogo, then perhaps one day I will venture in the complications of the QID.

I have to say that the Nimzo complex is much harder to understand than the QGD, it's much more flexible. I'm sure it's worth it.

 

I have a simple question on the Bogo:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this position the move for white is 5.g3. It's the overwhelming majority of games in the database and the only one that my repertoire book (Dzindzi's) even considers.

Why does white absolutely want to fianchetto?

Can it have something to do with trying to prevent d5 from black, now that his Q is not behind it?

 

And what happens if instead white plays 5. Nc3? We transpose into a Nimzo with the 4.Bd2 line but now my Queen is on e7 and I'm not sure how this affects the position and what I shoud do.

 

These are all sidelines I know, but it would be really useful for me to understand WHY the book moves are played.

TwoMove

g3 gives black a bit of problem with white square bishop, i.e can't comfortably play b6.

In Nc3 line Qe7 is at least as useful as bd2, defends bb4 from tricks. Can play whatever you play in Nimzo, which chould be b6 again.

People always have different motivation for changing openings, but would mention that currently just about every top 10 player uses Queen Gambit declined. Only Carlson plays BogoIndian, and that line with BxB, rather than Qe7.

plutonia

Blacks plays 4...Qe7 to support the ...d6 and ...e5 advance, is this correct?

Forgive me if I'm slow but I don't get how the fianchetto, controlling light squares, would counter my plan of ...d5 and ...e5.

 

why would g3 make me uncomfortable to play b6 and fianchetto my own LSB?

I know that after g3 the move is ...Nc6 and its reason is that when black exchanges on d2 white is forced to take with the knight (and not the queen), misplacing his knight that would be better on c3.

Still I don't get why black's fianchetto of his own LSB would not be a viable strategy, just to counter the white bishop on g2.

TwoMove

After white plays bg2 and castles, Bg2 is defended compared to Bb7. So black needs to be careful about Ng5 and similar tricks. After bb4ch , bd2 and Qe7, black might be more vunerable to this, compared to playing b6 immediately, the usual Queens Indian.

In Bogo with a5, if follow up with later b6 then Ra8 has squares to move to. So might be more playable compared to Qe7 and b6. Not sure playing b6 is the most attractive option even with a5 though.

FeatherRook

I think Smyslov 4...a5 quite a bit.

Korchnoi played 4...c5 many times.

learningthemoves

It's funny you mentioned the Bogo Indian as I just happened to see a video by a Grandmaster going over this opening and variations with strategy...

It sounds like it's exactly what you're asking about:

=> http://TrainlikeaGrandmaster.com/tour.php 

Ambassador_Spock
TwoMove

I'm pretty sure after 4...Qe7 5g3 there are tactical problems with b6. If keen on b6, the dagram line chould be an option, in some quarters called Miles variation. One of the main ideas is that the bad bishop is acutally doing more work than Bg2.

TheGreatOogieBoogie
pfren wrote:

The current trend in the Bogo is Ulf Andersson's old speciality: 3...Bb4+ 4.Bd2 Bxd2+ 5.Qxd2 d5. Extremely hard to crack, algthough rather not ambitious.

Superficially it looks like a mistake because black weakened his dark squares (though white is also without a dark squared bishop you could have knights and other pieces influence them) though like you said there's no concrete way to get at it if black knows what he's doing.  Is retreating the bishop good for black too?

I found an Anderssen game with your given line, many were draws and there was a win with white (by Karpov) so I decided to post this one since it won with black:




TwoMove

The exchange of dark square bishops, actually makes it harder for white to make the minority attack effective. Although in my opinion the advantage  1.d4 club players seem to think is automatic in carlsbad pawn structure is more an article of faith than reality.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

Yeah you gotta prepare those minority attacks and even then it's not always viable or even best (sometimes it's best preventing black's ...c5 or preparing e4) plans don't simply rely on the pawn structure but also piece placement and distribution. 

TwoMove

It's more typical to have the rooks on Ra-b1, and Re8, although Rd8 intending a later Rd6 to defend and attack on the third rank is a common idea too. A refinement nowdays played by Carlsen and others is to play Rd8 instead of nb-d7, because sometimes it is useful for black to play Nc6, and sometimes c5. It isn't trival to break down black's positon in catalan type positions with g3 either.