Breyer, Marshall or Berlin Wall?

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chessmaster7227

Can anyone reccomend a Breyer book which allows a quick understanding of the critical lines?

Pulpofeira

I've been playing Breyer with not much success. Of course at my level the issue is not about your opening choice, but still I feel a bit cramped and I don't like that. And suddenly there's a bang and tactics explode on my face. I've been thinking on switch to open variation, but the fact Korchnoi likes it makes it a little scary...

pfren
chessmaster7227 wrote:

Can anyone reccomend a Breyer book which allows a quick understanding of the critical lines?

THIS one should be good- it has several examples/exercises before each chapter. It's a complete 1...e5 repertoire.

u0110001101101000

My main problem in adopting the Breyer has been...

No one at my level seems to want to play main lines. Just reaching the quintessential Spanish position after 9.h3 has been rare for me (as either color).

chessmaster7227

Thanks pfren - I know that Ntirlis is an excellent opening analysist, so looks like a good choice

chessmaster7227
0110001101101000 wrote:

My main problem in adopting the Breyer has been...

No one at my level seems to want to play main lines. Just reaching the quintessential Spanish position after 9.h3 has been rare for me (as either color).

 

chessmaster7227

Yes-you also have to be prepared to face the many sidelines and exchange variations.

pfren
chessmaster7227 wrote:

Thanks pfren - I know that Ntirlis is an excellent opening analysist, so looks like a good choice

Is he? He has adopted a couple of my ideas in the book (of course he pays full credits), so I'm quite suspicious... Tongue Out

He also did not adopt my suggestion in the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.e5: 5...Ng4, but I think he picked another line because Ng4 was covered in Lokander's book, published a couple of months earlier.

u0110001101101000

Yes, so many sidelines...  luckily in the Spanish it's often the case that you can make several errors before you're losing. In the Sicilian black is not so fortunate I think :)

Pulpofeira

Sicilians were owned by us, remember it.

chessmaster7227
pfren wrote:
chessmaster7227 wrote:

Thanks pfren - I know that Ntirlis is an excellent opening analysist, so looks like a good choice

Is he? He has adopted a couple of my ideas in the book (of course he pays full credits), so I'm quite suspicious...

He also did not adopt my suggestion in the line 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.e5: 5...Ng4, but I think he picked another line because Ng4 was covered in Lokander's book, published a couple of months earlier.

 

All I know is that Ntirlis works hard to assemble a complete repertoire that he considers to be optimal. I suspect however that you would be a better judge of this - being a superior player to myself and also Greek.

ThrillerFan
chessmaster7227 wrote:

Thanks poucin, great answer. I think I have Bologan's book - but I found it very hard work. 

Uhm, that's a good thing!

If it isn't hard work, you ain't learning sh*t!

Improvement requires putting in 110% effort!

Also, you have to get your mind off of this "Attacking Style".  If you aren't a Universal Player, you are nothing!  You have to be able to handle both wild positions and sterile, symmetrical positions.

The Berlin is notorious for being symmetrical and boring, but I've had completely whacked out wild games in the Berlin.

The Marshall Gambit is notorious for being wild, but I've seen sterile equality in the Marshall Gambit as well.

 

Same thing goes for any other opening.  Sterile Najdorfs and Wild Slavs are plentiful!

 

Of the 3, the Breyer is the safest, the Berlin is going to require the most endgame knowledge, and the Marshall is going to require learning the most theory as you are going to get Anti-Marshalls almost 90% of the time, which requires you to know 8.a4, 8.a3, 8.h3, and one other move I can't seem to recall, along with the gobs of theory from 8.c3 d5.

 

At your level, 2100, which is also where I am, you should be studying the games of GMs Spassky and later.  Pre-Spassky is for lower players.  They all had a specific "Style" and hence why they weren't as good as a World Champion from the past 50 years!  You will see the difference.  While all of Capablanca's games were about simplicity and simplifying the position, and while players like Alekhine and Tal favored wild, tactical positions, you won't see any one specific pattern in the games of Spassky, Kasparov, Carlsen, etc.  One game will look like Tal played it while the name game will look like Yusupov played it!

USCF1O11

Are you open to the Modern Steinitz?  3...a6 4.Ba4 d6.  After 5.c3 the Siesta 5...f5 is quite sharp and surprisingly sound.  And after 5.Nf3 you can play 5...b5 and steer back to closed systems with ...Nf6 ...Be7 etcetera, though then the Marshall is ruled out.  And as for the closed system, its fallen out of favor, but what about the Keres line with 11...Nfd7 (instead of the typical Tchigorin 11...Qc7)

lolurspammed

Isn't there a line with d4 in the siesta that leads to a forced draw if white wants?

Tom_Brady_SB49_Champ
pfren wrote:
chessmaster7227 wrote:

Can anyone reccomend a Breyer book which allows a quick understanding of the critical lines?

THIS one should be good- it has several examples/exercises before each chapter. It's a complete 1...e5 repertoire.

IM prfen, for an 1800 OTB player is there anything wrong with the zaitsev

u0110001101101000

I had the chance to play some practice games against the Siesta with 7...Bd3 (I was white). At least the way my opponent kept playing it, it didn't seem very good. Not busted or anything, but I always had a comfortable advantage.

I don't know if 7...Bd3 is the way it's still played. I'm not at my chess computer at the moment so no database to check.



X_PLAYER_J_X

WOW REALLY?

You give yourself only 3 options?

You reduce all your options to only 3?

Breyer, Marshall or Berlin Wall?

You have plenty of lines you can play against the Ruy Lopez.

Than you listen to everyone & pick the Breyer?

Forget the Breyer!!!!!

No one cares about the Breyer.

 

Forget the Marshall!!!!!

You can't even play the Marshall if white doesn't allow it.

 

Now finally we get to real chess lines!

The Berlin Defense!!!!!

A line for champions!

Don't get confused!

The Berlin Wall Endgame is not forced.

White can prevent it if they chose too.

The line you will need to learn is the Berlin Defense and the lines which arrise from the Berlin Defense.

 

 

Furthermore, I would like to give some other lines which could be interesting to play.

From my limited knowledge, I haven't heard of these lines being refuted.

Thus, I will mention them.

  • Spanish Game, Fianchetto Defense

Nakamura was playing this line a while back. I don't know why. LOL maybe because he is Nakamura & can do what ever he wants too.

Who knows lol.

Yeah this line seems popular. Maybe it is making a come back.

 

 
 

 

  • Spanish Game, Arch Angel Defense(Archangelsk Variation)

This line has been played by some top level players including Vishy!



You have a few other lines as well.

  • Spanish Game, Zaitsev System
  • Spanish Game, Smyslov-Breyer-Zaitsev Hybrid
  • Spanish Game, Smyslov Defense

 

Lastly, I would like to mention a nice blitz line.

Spanish Game, Cozio Defense



Yeah surely these lines can be playable for anyone under Grand Master level.

If Super Grand Masters can play these lines surely we can give them a shot as well!

HolyKing

@XplayerJX, I think OP already knows his options . After all he is 2100 elo.

@chessmaster, here is a book review of the Ntrilis book,

https://www.chess.com/blog/smurfo/book-review-playing-1e4-e5

joyntjezebel
chessmaster7227 wrote:

hi guys!

 

So baisically I am a 2100 ELO player who has played the Sicilian his whole life, and now wants to develop a repertoire around 1...e5. Against the Ruy Lopez/Spanish, I have been examining the Breyer, Marshall and Berlin Wall - wonder if you guys could recommend which one would best suit my tactical, attacking style without having to learn loads of theory immediately in order to start playing it.

 

I suggest the Breyer.  And play the sicilian if you need something sharp.

The Marshall needs preparation and will often be avoided.  The Berlin, you will often be in an ending with a somewhat awkward position with potential.  Does not sound like your strength.

But playing the Ruy Lopez is not at all the way to avoid having to learn loads of theory.  And there are many other lines after e5 you will need to know something about.

Bulacano
This is all I know after studying the Chess Mentor course.