Building my Solid Opening Repertoire (Fischer's)

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I have no problem wth God. But I do have a problem with you.

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Feel powerful? I didn't want someone to be misinformed about you. From the looks of it, it looked like he actually wanted to get better at chess.

Advice to the public:

If you want to improve, stay away from the forums. There are lots of great resources for improving on the internet already, don't let the forums hold you back.

I myself might end up leaving the forums completely soon.

In general, the forums are not the best way to get chess information. There are many people who mess around, give fake information for chess, and often a general lack of activity in the actual threads about chess (While the off topic might thrive) compared to the real ones. If you do get some activity, it might be hard to tell the difference between some bad advice that sounds fancy and actual good advice.

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Well... I guess God does have problem with that idiot as well, but this is his main fault: He is way too forgiving.

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I don't want to deal with an argument with StupidGM in this forum right now, so untracking...

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The whole reason @StupidGM has an account here is that he would get laughed out of the local chess club if he said these things to anyone's face.

What a hypocrite.

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@blueemu Interesting. Basically King's Indian Defense, but with 2 moves ahead. I will definitely look into this. Do Caro-kann players expect such an opening?

@MayCaesar Playing both sides seems painful, yet very beneficial. That's a great idea - I play sicillian both sides, and that made me a good sicillian player happy.png

Does the Bird transpose to any sort of "familiar" opening? Or is it unique?

 

@btl1230 It kind of feels too complicated, like a whole new setup. The reverse KID seems more approachable, especially that I'm more familiar with it as black

 

@MickinMD I'm not looking for cheesy openings that K.O after the 5th move, nor the "win more games" scenario. Simply the primary opening theories and the plus/minus and the plans to them.

 

 

 

I understand trying to strive for a familiar position is bad practice, but I think it gives me a solid understanding of certain patterns in the position.

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Very few players can use Fischer's opening repertoire with success, you have to be a Kasparov. Fischer line against the Najdorf is no good any more 6.Bc4, when he use it he was quite successful.

Avatar of yureesystem
StupidGM wrote:
yureesystem wrote:

Very few players can use Fischer's opening repertoire with success, you have to be a Kasparov. Fischer line against the Najdorf is no good any more 6.Bc4, when he use it he was quite successful.

Fischer's repertoire isn't that strong, but it's a great starting point.

Many of his "obsolete" lines could easily make a comeback too.

Today one can just use engines to build an opening repertoire.  I don't think today's players can relate to the "dark ages" of chess at all.  I feel like a caveman sometimes when I see how people play today.

 

 

 

I agree. Fischer had difficult time with Caro-Kann ( 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.h3 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 white get no opening advantage against a good players.) One thing I can say about Fischer on black side of Sicilian, KID and Grunfeld; is Fischer was a virtuoso in these defenses. Maybe this is why a lot players want to play the Sicilian or King's Indian defense because of Fischer's success with these defenses but without good tactics and attacking abilities they will fail to be successful.  

Avatar of FrogCDE

It seems to me you should adopt a grandmaster repertoire (even one that's forty years out of date) if you want to be a grandmaster. And that means putting in a grandmaster level of work. If you have no such ambitions, go for simpler openings that will just get you into the middlegame, with some attacking chances if you know them better than your opponent. When I took up chess again about ten years ago, I was greatly helped by an article by Nigel Davies on openings for the club player: he recommended, eg, the closed Sicilian and g3 Vienna with white, and for Black the QGD and the O'Kelly Sicilian (which I played for years, with quite a lot of success).

Avatar of MayCaesar
VardanBetikyan wrote:

@MayCaesar Playing both sides seems painful, yet very beneficial. That's a great idea - I play sicillian both sides, and that made me a good sicillian player

Does the Bird transpose to any sort of "familiar" opening? Or is it unique?

 

I don't think it does, since the 1. f4 move imposes certain restrictions on black's responses not existing in other variations (there are very few openings in which white plays f4 very early) - but with this you can often play Dutch Defense with tempo, if your opponent plays accordingly. happy.png 1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 leads to a pretty Dutch-like structure.

Avatar of SonOfThunder2

Look up Zaphys blog on openings

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StupidGM wrote:

As a general note, when someone tells you not to listen to someone else, they are telling you instead to listen to THEM.  If someone posts something inaccurate about someone, and is given a chance to retract it, but instead doubles down by asserting nonexistent authority, they are removing any doubt that they made a mistake.

 

+1

Avatar of kindaspongey

"... A typical way of choosing an opening repertoire is to copy the openings used by a player one admires. ... However, what is good at world-championship level is not always the best choice at lower levels of play, and it is often a good idea to choose a 'model' who is nearer your own playing strength. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

Avatar of yureesystem
StupidGM wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
StupidGM wrote:
yureesystem wrote:

Very few players can use Fischer's opening repertoire with success, you have to be a Kasparov. Fischer line against the Najdorf is no good any more 6.Bc4, when he use it he was quite successful.

Fischer's repertoire isn't that strong, but it's a great starting point.

Many of his "obsolete" lines could easily make a comeback too.

Today one can just use engines to build an opening repertoire.  I don't think today's players can relate to the "dark ages" of chess at all.  I feel like a caveman sometimes when I see how people play today.

 

 

 

I agree. Fischer had difficult time with Caro-Kann ( 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 Bg4 4.h3 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 white get no opening advantage against a good players.) One thing I can say about Fischer on black side of Sicilian, KID and Grunfeld; is Fischer was a virtuoso in these defenses. Maybe this is why a lot players want to play the Sicilian or King's Indian defense because of Fischer's success with these defenses but without good tactics and attacking abilities they will fail to be successful.  

Kasparov-Karpov 1986 was almost nothing but main line Gruenfelds, so I don't think that was an issue.

 

None of Fischer's openings impressed me within two years of my beginning to train seriously in the opening, not even the ones you listed.  He just wasn't that strong in the opening, but his major talent seemed to be knowing which "scripted" lines the public followed which were unsound, like 10. e5 against the Poisoned Pawn.  Back in those days, people used MCO (then ECO), and Informant (or a similar publication) to digest "theory."  Deviating from theory was like walking in the wilderness because there were no engines to tell you if you had found a new path.

 

When I saw that Nakamura game where the engine preparation extended to move 21 I just thought "What about the OTHER dozen or so sound alternatives on the way to move FIVE?"  That game told me they're still playing "scripted" chess, only now they are sitting ducks for "opening snipers" who can use Stockfish to book up to say move 72 of the Larsen opening.  That's why I say familiarity and transpositional considerations trump objective positional strength, and Carlsen has confirmed this with his style of play.

 

My exposure to Carlsen's style first came in 1987 when I began playing against Tom Murphy, who used it as a staple.  Before he met me and we became sparring partners, Murph would just exit the books as soundly as he could, to one of those footnote "unclear" lines in ECO that Stockfish has now confirmed is either a main line or equally sound to the main lines.  How I could spar with a player like Tom for four years and not understand the middlegame is beyond me.  What I learned most from Tom was that I ahd to GET a better position in the middlegame in order to win them, and he is exceptional at coming from behind, so even when I'd be up a pawn or an exchange with a clearly superior position, I still had to fight for dear life.

 

Usting mostly theory I derived from dissecting Murph's play, I've figured out the middlegame, in large part thanks to tom's appro9ach (and now Carlsen's) of turning the game into a middlegame as early as possible without getting busted in the opening.  Kind of like a racehorse who sits a length off the lead, takes over on the turn, and holds sway for the win.  The "stalk and pounce" running style.  My goal is to win wire-to-wire; there is no theoretical basis for giving away anything in the opening, and when I do give Black a -0.25 or whatever, like with the Center Game, it's intentional, the position is still drawn, and I know that opening probably better than any player in the world at this point.

 

 Part of playing like Stockfish involves learning how to in in the middlegame and endgame from slightly inferior opening positions, as the computer can do easily.  By taking an objectively weaker position that I know inside-out, I am "studying" the middlegame and endgame, because if I ever go back to the main line Lopez (or Scotch or whatever), I'll have an extra half-pawn in positional strength to work with.  Ty Cobb used to put weights in his shoes when he ran sprints, so that when he didn't have them in a game, he would fly around the basis.  Standard resistance training, and please note that I play 12-14 hours a day most days, or when I post a lot, I take a break, playing "only" 6-8.  A fulltime job like the one I got after quitting in 1991 would be a vacation by comparison.  Chess is great for making the rest of life seem much easier. 

 I will politely disagree with you; Fischer was king when it came to the opening preparation. It amaze me that Bobby could out prepare even the Russian, he completely outplay Botvinnik in their and Fischer even found holes Botvinnik and team best Russian GMs in their opening preparation against Bobby's beloved Grunfeld; against Tal, Fischer outplay Tal in opening. If Bobby played Karpov in 1975 match, Fischer would of destroyed Karpov. Fischer an expert in Ruy Lopez and facing Fischer on the white of Ruy Lopez meant you will lose to Fischer. Fischer played like Alekhnie, all the games were exciting and they weren't dull like boring Carlsen.

Avatar of triggerlips

http://bobbyfischer.net/repertoire.html

 

This will be of great interest to anyone wanting to emulate Robert

Avatar of yureesystem
triggerlips wrote:

http://bobbyfischer.net/repertoire.html

 

This will be of great interest to anyone wanting to emulate Robert

 Thanks!

Avatar of VardanBetikyan
triggerlips wrote:

http://bobbyfischer.net/repertoire.html

 

This will be of great interest to anyone wanting to emulate Robert

The games are not annotated, and it really doesn't say the plans of the positions

Avatar of triggerlips
StupidGM wrote:
 

I studied Fischer's openings during the late 1980s, to an extent that probably exceeded anyone's (like 50-70 hours a week at some points, or at least 10-15).  As I developed an understanding of opening principles I quickly lost respect for him, and his 7. a4 against the Winawer was hardly impressive

 

     This implies you spent your entire waking moments studying Fischers openings.   No surprise you struggled to rate over 2000 uscf

Avatar of yureesystem

@ StupidGM, I  don't agree with you but I can prove my points. Fischer's opening are meant to beat opponents not draw, where Carlsen passive, lame and dull opening are only good for a draw. Magnus could not beat Karjakin in their first and tied match and had to go rapid time control, because Carlsen's opening and play is so passive and could not beat a 2700 player in their match; if this was Fischer, it would been a crush.  

 

 Carlsen One Game Away From Losing Number One Spot's Thumbnail

Carlsen One Game Away From Losing Number One Spot  

 

This said it all, Carlsen is not world champion caliber, look at his hands outward and his head tilt resign to his fate and going to  second place. It all come to determination and fighting spirit, Magnus has none. Fischer was a fighter and he put fear in his opponent, Bobby number one goal was to crush his opponents. No one fear Carlsen, his opening doesn't instill no fear, not like Fischer's aggressive  opening. And there is nothing wrong with 7.a4 in French Winawer, it still gives white an advantage.

 

 

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intermediatedinoz wrote:
SonOfThunder2 wrote:

Look up Zaphys blog on openings

Fischer's actually. 1.d3 is not bad either.

lol