c3 - Saragossa opening. Is it good?

Sort:
madhacker
KonstantinParkhomenk wrote:

It's winning, of course!

For black, possibly Tongue Out

bgale

1 c3 is better than it looks.

If 1.....e5 then 2 d4 exd4 3 Qxd4 Nc6 then 4 Qa4 or Qd3

Now have a Scandinavian with an extra move.

I have done well as Black with the Qd6 Scandinavian and expect even better with this.

If 1....Nf6 then 2 d4 g6 3 Nf3 Bg7 4 Bf4 0-0 5 h3 d6  6 e3 Nbd7 7 Be2 Re1? 8 Bh2 e5?

9 dxe5 dxe5 10 Nxe5 winning a pawn (If Nxe5 Qxd8)

Note Black should play 7....Qe8 if he follows with e5.

Also 8 0-0 is not good because after winning the pawn you need to play Nd2 then Nf3 to activate your queens side.

This is the London opening against the Kings Indian set up and I have done OK with it.

If 1.....d5 then 2 d4 and Black has to be careful not to play Bf5 or Bg4 too soon because of Qb3

 White can either get the queens bishop out then e3 or if an early c5 from Black can play e3 (A reversed Slav with extra move).

The main advantages of 1 c3 are:

1. Opponent will underestimate it and you.

2. Good in rapid games (make him/her think).

 

NewArdweaden

Not terribly.

adumbrate

played it alot in bullet. great system.



BirdsDaWord
abrahampenrose wrote:

What's the point of moving the c-pawn to move it again later? 

Let's say you really like trying the Sicilian with reversed colors.  So why not?  Or if you want to get in reversed Benoni positions.  There are quite a few reasons why someone might try this idea - to play the Black repertoire with the White pieces.

BirdsDaWord
abrahampenrose wrote:

@Birdbrain Right, but I've always considered reversed openings better if you can use the extra tempo to play a useful move. Wasting the entire tempo is indeed, a waste. 

It is and it isn't.  I personally agree with you that if I were to play 1. c3, I would either play into an e4 system, or perhaps a modern.  It would be interesting to combine it with 2. g3 and then you could go into many pawn structures, even the Leningrad with an early f4.  

What are your thoughts on 2. g3? 

BirdsDaWord

Why wouldn't you play 5. d3 instead?

TheBlunderfulPlayer
BirdBrain wrote:

Why wouldn't you play 5. d3 instead?

I would surely prefer Black's position after 5. d3...

TheBlunderfulPlayer

In fact, 1. g3 can transpose into normal 1. d4 and 1. Nf3 openings!

BirdsDaWord

Here is a screenshot from my Chessbase of moves chosen after 1...e5:

https://gyazo.com/7b60a87d082b63e51f6f6e0f9ba323e5

Here is after 1. c3 e5 2. g3 d5:

https://gyazo.com/ff600992477d86b5dfc880763125a1f8

Interesting enough, a popular "common-sense" strategy is the early h4 and Nh3-f4:



BirdsDaWord
Fiveofswords wrote:

c3 is not very testing and you kinda offer black a free hand in how he wants to develop. Of course this can be useful for practical reasons. As time wasting moves go, c3 is actually one of the better ones, because at least it does give some scope to your queen, does care about d4 center square, and doesnt limit white any mroe than depriving c3 of his knight. So if you want black to be forced to think for himself in the openign rather than copy theory, its not a bad choice. better than something like a3 oh h3 which ignore the center, and imo better than something liek e3 or d3 which kinda remove the option of e4/d4 in one move.

What do you think about Kasparov's 1. d3 blitz concept?

user0719

My friends and I used to call 1.c3 the "Charles" Opening, having no clue about the term "Saragossa" back in those days. I used to try it every now and then, usually with a 2.Qc2 follow-up and looking sometimes for the reverse Slav.

Henson_Chess

its okay-ish, but I would rather play it as black (caro kann)

GreenCastleBlock

1.c3 b6 makes sense.  Since White is declaring he will fortify d4, perhaps Black can wage a war for the e4 square?  Also, with Qb3 available immediately to White it is uncertain if Black's QB should develop to f5/g4 so why not the long diagonal?

MSC157
NewArdweaden wrote:

Not terribly.

Haha, se kar na ustajje komentarji, čeprou's že kadaj zaprou akaunt. Smile

NewArdweaden
MSC157 wrote:
NewArdweaden wrote:

Not terribly.

Haha, se kar na ustajje komentarji, čeprou's že kadaj zaprou akaunt. 

Hehehhe

Bramblyspam

As black, 1... c6 is a solid reply to any white move. If you're playing 1. c3 as white, you're essentially playing a Caro-Kann or Slav opening with an extra tempo, and those are both very solid openings. However, you're still essentially playing black. It's rather unambitious to choose to play black when you have the option of playing white. Wink 

If someone plays 1. c3 e5 2. d4 e4, I would recommend playing 3. d5. This stops black from playing Nc6 and makes the e4 pawn vulnerable and hard to protect. If black lets you play it, 4. Qd4 is very strong. If not, then you can play moves like c4, Nc3, Qc2 etc.

TheKingSri64
critterbob2022
critterbob2022

I am a beginner but have won with this tactic dozens of times