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Dragon_Benoni

Question: Is the French Defence really that good?

Why do I ask?

Because 2/3 of my Black French games seem to be the Exchange French.

Newsflash: THE EXCHANGE FRENCH IS CRAP FOR WHITE. GROW SOME AND PLAY SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE!!

Before you start, I have a healthy + score on the Black side of the French Exchange.

llama

I played the exchange with 4.c4 OTB for a while. I had a pretty good score with it. I think 75% and no losses after 6 or 8 games. Something like that.

I think white is free to choose the exchange, but the french player isn't so free to choose stuff like 3...dxe lines and e.g. the fort knox. White just gets really nice positions.

So yeah, the French is fine, but I feel like black has fewer options.

Dragon_Benoni

When I play it as Black, people seem to play it just because they have no idea what to do. They have no strategy, they just develop and give Black an easy game. I think the c4 lines are admittedly a bit more interesting.

llama

I still kind of run away from main lines 

I'm fine with 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 but I don't like the winawer so I'll play sidelines there.

ApolL26

I think this line, altough not the most exciting, gives white a small advantage if black goes for 6.Qe7 or 6.Be7, and after 6.Be6 7.Ng5 Qe7 8.Nxe6 fxe6, it's no longer a symmetrical pawn structure, making it a little more interesting.

Dragon_Benoni

I’d play 5...c5 there. Breaks The symmetry and makes it more interesting.

 

Scndidarkknight

Hi you must be unlucky, last 6 games involving the french i had winawer and fort knox from the white side, both wins. From the black side i had a stienitz (win), a tarrasch(win) , a rubenstien (draw) and a classical alekhine-chatard(draw) all very interesting and much less work than a sicilian. At blitz its mainly nf3/nc3 two knights stuff or advanced. Once you have decided to embrace the chaos of the winawer from either side then playing nc3 is much easier.

k00m00d00

Zzap, Best move: 1... e6 'Affirmative'

Dragon_Benoni
Scndidarkknight wrote:

Hi you must be unlucky, last 6 games involving the french i had winawer and fort knox from the white side, both wins. From the black side i had a stienitz (win), a tarrasch(win) , a rubenstien (draw) and a classical alekhine-chatard(draw) all very interesting and much less work than a sicilian. At blitz its mainly nf3/nc3 two knights stuff or advanced. Once you have decided to embrace the chaos of the winawer from either side then playing nc3 is much easier.

Hi Andy....yeah I was just playing one of my sessions of blitz and honestly I must have had 10/10 Exchange French. So much so I just premove 3...exd5!

Just wonder why so many people fear going into the main lines?

Inter_Mezzo

Well, I can guarantee you'll never catch me playing anything other than the Tarrasch against the French! 

I think the exchange variation is to the French player what the anti-Sicilians are to the Sicilian player... it's certainly not white's most testing system but I guess it's relatively easy to learn and play.

aronian22
Dragon_Benoni wrote:

Question: Is the French Defence really that good?

 

Why do I ask?

Because 2/3 of my Black French games seem to be the Exchange French.

Newsflash: THE EXCHANGE FRENCH IS CRAP FOR WHITE. GROW SOME AND PLAY SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE!!

Before you start, I have a healthy + score on the Black side of the French Exchange.

 

Hello! I used to be an e4 player, but I now play d4. (Because the Catalan. Enough said.) I completely agree with you. The exchange french is at least equal and maybe even good for black. The correct way to play is Nc3 or Nd2. With Nc3, I don't really mind Bb4. Nd2 is also fine though.

Dragon_Benoni
Inter_Mezzo wrote:

Well, I can guarantee you'll never catch me playing anything other than the Tarrasch against the French! 

I think the exchange variation is to the French player what the anti-Sicilians are to the Sicilian player... it's certainly not white's most testing system but I guess it's relatively easy to learn and play.

Hi Dave. Yes of course I know your fondness for 3 Nd2 which is of course more testing. I agree it’s like players Playing 1 e4 c5 2 Bc4 v the Sicilian. Another really common and completely awful way to avoid the best lines!

FizzyBand

The Fact is that nothing really challenges a French player much but 3.Nc3!. The other main options are e5 (which is mostly played for the purposes of a suspect gambit but is fine if White plays less actively), Nd2 (which would arguably be better than Nc3 if Black couldn’t  go ...c5=, and exd5, the Exchange where White is basically saying that they are too lazy to study any theory and are just willing to take an equal position and try to win it.

Dragon_Benoni
FizzyBand wrote:

The Fact is that nothing really challenges a French player much but 3.Nc3!. The other main options are e5 (which is mostly played for the purposes of a suspect gambit but is fine if White plays less actively), Nd2 (which would arguably be better than Nc3 if Black couldn’t  go ...c5=, and exd5, the Exchange where White is basically saying that they are too lazy to study any theory and are just willing to take an equal position and try to win it.

100% agree!

FizzyBand

The fact is that Nc3 is the hardest move to play (theory) but albeit the best, as it allows Black no immediate central break and allows White to generally develop harmoniously.

ThrillerFan

As a life long French player, it has to do with White's ignorance and not that the French is all mighty.

Here is proof!  I have other games that I have won as well, but these are my draws and losses as Black in the last 12 months featuring the French with myself playing Black.

 

It is not always rainbows and unicorns!

 

 

ThrillerFan
Preusseagro wrote:

i play this aggaisnt french

Sastisfied^^

 

Black can decline the Gambit with 6...Nh6.

That said, in your line, advantage Black after 10...a6! (Far stronger than 10...Dxe5, which is sound, but only equalizes).

ThrillerFan
Preusseagro wrote:

Qxe5 is much better for white and a6 slightly better for white, but it does not apear very often and i get good postions out here

 

Wrong assessments!

10...Qxe5 11.Re1 Qb8! (Not 11...Qd6) is equal

10...a6 is =/+

king5minblitz119147

I play the exchange line against the French, and I do not because I am lazy or I want to force a draw, but because I think this is one of the few ways to actually get an open type of position against the French, but one where I don't have to know a ton of theory associated with Nc3. I just think it is impractical for someone of my level to be studying the intricacies of Nc3 etc when I don't even get the French all that often. exd5 is simpler and more practical. Nothing against the French, as I have played it myself for a while, both the classical and the fort knox lines.

PawnTsunami
Dragon_Benoni wrote:

Question: Is the French Defence really that good?

 

Why do I ask?

Because 2/3 of my Black French games seem to be the Exchange French.

Newsflash: THE EXCHANGE FRENCH IS CRAP FOR WHITE. GROW SOME AND PLAY SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE!!

Before you start, I have a healthy + score on the Black side of the French Exchange.

 

The reason you run into it often is likely due to the popularity of IM Christof Sielecki's book (and Chessable course) "KIS 1 e4", where he recommends the Exchange French for White.

Personally, I prefer Shaw's recommendation (the Tarrasch Variation), but Negi's is probably the most testing try.