Calling all 1 e4 players

king5minblitz119147

I play the exchange line against the French, and I do not because I am lazy or I want to force a draw, but because I think this is one of the few ways to actually get an open type of position against the French, but one where I don't have to know a ton of theory associated with Nc3. I just think it is impractical for someone of my level to be studying the intricacies of Nc3 etc when I don't even get the French all that often. exd5 is simpler and more practical. Nothing against the French, as I have played it myself for a while, both the classical and the fort knox lines.

verylate

ThrillerFan: "As a life long French player, it has to do with White's ignorance and not that the French is all mighty."

Although I don't play at your level, that statement accords 100% with my own limited experience. I have one friend, a player of my own humble category, who plays the exchange against the french almost exclusively. And because he plays it as his main anti-french weapon, he does pretty well with it, until he runs into much stronger players. (And when that happens, well opening choice isn't usually the decisive factor)  He says he plays it partly because he is comfortable with the positions he gets, but mostly because it "gets the french players out of their comfort zones" and "This way, the french player doesn't get the kind of position he wants" Which leads me ask, what kind of a position does a french player actually want, what positions does a french player feel comfortable in?

Yeah TF, you nailed it in one. They really don't get it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PawnTsunami
Dragon_Benoni wrote:

Question: Is the French Defence really that good?

 

Why do I ask?

Because 2/3 of my Black French games seem to be the Exchange French.

Newsflash: THE EXCHANGE FRENCH IS CRAP FOR WHITE. GROW SOME AND PLAY SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE!!

Before you start, I have a healthy + score on the Black side of the French Exchange.

 

The reason you run into it often is likely due to the popularity of IM Christof Sielecki's book (and Chessable course) "KIS 1 e4", where he recommends the Exchange French for White.

Personally, I prefer Shaw's recommendation (the Tarrasch Variation), but Negi's is probably the most testing try.

Preusseagro
ThrillerFan hat geschrieben:
Preusseagro wrote:

Qxe5 is much better for white and a6 slightly better for white, but it does not apear very often and i get good postions out here

 

Wrong assessments!

10...Qxe5 11.Re1 Qb8! (Not 11...Qd6) is equal

10...a6 is =/+

white gets more than enought compensation here for the pawn. Every wrong move can put the black king in danger

A-mateur

In fact I could have written exactly the same thread. 

If you play the exchange, play it for a reason!

I used to only face the advance variation, but at my level now it seems that maybe 75% of my opponents, or even more, play 2.Nf3, 3.exd5 and 4.d4.

Happily I heard about the Bd6 Nc6 Nge7 Bg4 set-up that usually aims to castle on the queen's side, and that allows me to create an unbalanced position without pawn structure weaknesses (weaknesses that could be created by playing c7-c5 in order to have an IQP). 

ThrillerFan
verylate wrote:

ThrillerFan: "As a life long French player, it has to do with White's ignorance and not that the French is all mighty."

Although I don't play at your level, that statement accords 100% with my own limited experience. I have one friend, a player of my own humble category, who plays the exchange against the french almost exclusively. And because he plays it as his main anti-french weapon, he does pretty well with it, until he runs into much stronger players. (And when that happens, well opening choice isn't usually the decisive factor)  He says he plays it partly because he is comfortable with the positions he gets, but mostly because it "gets the french players out of their comfort zones" and "This way, the french player doesn't get the kind of position he wants" Which leads me ask, what kind of a position does a french player actually want, what positions does a french player feel comfortable in?

Yeah TF, you nailed it in one. They really don't get it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot depends on the maturity of the French player.

There are a number of pawn structures the French player has to be able to hand.  3 really in particular:

1) The blocked center - often seen in the Winawer, McCutchen, and Advance

2) The IQP center - often seen in the Tarrasch (Black gets the IQP) or Exchange with c4 (White gets the IQP)

3) The symmetrical center - mostly the Exchange Variation.

 

Now there are a few other structures, like the backwards pawn in the Closed Tarrasch, but I play 3...c5, not 3...Nf6 any more.

Another is the structures that result from the Rubinstein.

 

The one you mainly avoid is the mobile center, where White gets mobile pawns and Black has to attack the extended center from the outside with pieces, which you mainly see in the Grunfeld and Alekhine (hmmmm....and ThrillerFan HATES the Grunfeld and Alekhine)

 

The exchange doesn't bother me one bit.  To me, it's a free half point and often I will get the full point!

ThrillerFan
Preusseagro wrote:
ThrillerFan hat geschrieben:
Preusseagro wrote:

Qxe5 is much better for white and a6 slightly better for white, but it does not apear very often and i get good postions out here

 

Wrong assessments!

10...Qxe5 11.Re1 Qb8! (Not 11...Qd6) is equal

10...a6 is =/+

white gets more than enought compensation here for the pawn. Every wrong move can put the black king in danger

 

White does get compensation for the pawn, but no more than that, so you just confirmed my statement that it is equal.

 

Now nice job skirting around Black's stronger move, 10...a6!, which is advantage Black!  The Advance Variation went through a major theoretical change around 2007:

 

The Milner Barry is dubious at best because of 10...a6.

The advance with 5...Qb6 6.Be2 gives Black a slight edge, and hence White needs to play 6.a3 against 5...Qb6.

The lines with 5...Bd7 are now highly dubious for Black because it gives White the time needed to castle safely at no cost.  Black must attack d4 at all cost, meaning Nc6, Qb6, Nf5 (via Nge7 or Nh6).  White has no time to castle and the extra time taken later to get castled is how Black balances the position.  No time for Bd7!

drmrboss
Dragon_Benoni wrote:

Question: Is the French Defence really that good?

 

Why do I ask?

Because 2/3 of my Black French games seem to be the Exchange French.

Newsflash: THE EXCHANGE FRENCH IS CRAP FOR WHITE. GROW SOME AND PLAY SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE!!

Before you start, I have a healthy + score on the Black side of the French Exchange.

 

The problem with French is e6, d5 pawn structure which basically block LSB throughout the game. 

 

Black is basically playing with one piece handicap if white player can keep that e6, d5 pawn structure.

 

This game was latest version of Stockfish (in last week version ) played in TCEC vs Lc0.

 

 

Inter_Mezzo
FizzyBand wrote:

The fact is that Nc3 is the hardest move to play (theory) but albeit the best, as it allows Black no immediate central break and allows White to generally develop harmoniously.

... and if Black doesn't fancy playing against 3.Nc3 then he can always divert into the Rubenstein Variation.

 

dinosauria_we

Advantages are given, not taken. No matter what opening I play, I can only gain advantage when my opponent makes a mistake. Just because you are (apparently) playing against people that make mistakes along the way in the opening doesn't mean the opening is "crap". I have read, "Any opening that you know well is good no matter what its reputation." Sounds like you just know the exchange variation better than your opponents. Personally, I see the French 1 out of 10 times when I play e4 whereas as a French player you are seeing it way more often. It would make sense that you would be better prepared for almost any of the resulting variations a person may play against you.

MatthewFreitag

I used to play the french exchage solely because I hated playing against it, so my reasoning was if my game was going to suck, so was my opponents.

SNUDOO
MatthewFreitag wrote:

I used to play the french exchage solely because I hated playing against it, so my reasoning was if my game was going to suck, so was my opponents.

... I would play like that, except I think I hate a boring game more than I love seeing my opponent suffer. But if my opponent suffers and I don't, then I'm all in.

SNUDOO
Dragon_Benoni wrote:

Question: Is the French Defence really that good?

 

Why do I ask?

Because 2/3 of my Black French games seem to be the Exchange French.

Newsflash: THE EXCHANGE FRENCH IS CRAP FOR WHITE. GROW SOME AND PLAY SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE!!

Before you start, I have a healthy + score on the Black side of the French Exchange.

 

The French is so good, I decided to stop playing 1.e4 for a while, since I wasn't happy with mainline Tarrasch, KIA felt too slow, feared the classical, and the la bourdannis just doesn't work.

So now I play 1.f4 and 1.Nc3 just to avoid the french. Yeah, it's pretty good.

But the part about "grow up and play something that gives you an advantage"... doesn't work. If a white player knows the plans better than black, then the advantage is more than a simple engine +0.0000001. For example, the Bird's opening is technically not bad for black. But if you don't know what you're doing, you're just as likely to lose.