You're correct on the QGA by the way. I play the 1.d4 2.Nf3 version to avoid that business. And also as a KID player I'm fully aware of how effective the fianchetto version can be. I was just mostly worried about the slav and wanted to make sure there wasnt anything seriously wrong with adopting the setup against it before I looked into it on a database (as sometimes it can be misleading). Thanks!
If anyone else has info on the matter please continue to throw it in
i still like the SLAV!!
The Catalan is a perfect response to the Slav, or, for that matter, even the Semi-Slav. In fact, in the classical variation of the Catalan, the Slav is the defense that Black plays. As a player of the Catalan, I can assure you that the Catalan is amazingly flexible and can adapt to the system of almost any opening.
I don't really agree - playing the 'pure' Catalan against the Slav loses your c4 pawn after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 dc 5.Bg2 b5. Spent most of this afternoon (uk time) trying to play the White side of this with no success - there just isn't enough compensation for the qside pawns.
If you want to enter Catalan structures, getting there via the Qc2 Slav move order is better.
The Catalan requires reams of theory and is said to be not recommended to below class A. However, I find these opening recommendations silly because your opponent is likely to be of equal playing strength and therefore needs to deal with the positions too.
I don't really agree - playing the 'pure' Catalan against the Slav loses your c4 pawn after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 dc 5.Bg2 b5. Spent most of this afternoon (uk time) trying to play the White side of this with no success - there just isn't enough compensation for the qside pawns.
If you want to enter Catalan structures, getting there via the Qc2 Slav move order is better.
Better spend your afternoons at your garden then. White has mighty good compensation for the pawn, as confirmed by hundreds of GM games in that line.
More of a problem is Black NOT playing ...b5 that early.
Grumblesmurf:
Trust me. This is indeed the classical Catalan, and the sacrificed pawn on c4 is typical in this system. White immediately gains compensation with a strong initiative, enforced center control, and a lead in development. It is also typical for White to regain this material later on in the game, and if Black refuses to return the pawn, he will waste several turns tending to the defense of this piece. White also will commonly structure a stronger pawn chain then that of Black's. You say you have no success with this opening? I can assure you, this is only due to your own faults. In your response, you say that you spent a single afternoon learning the Catalan. Believe me, you will need much more time than a single afternoon to learn the Catalan. I recommend you don't leave negative comments to someone who is much more experienced in the topic.
Scorpio797: this is the internet. I have no idea how experienced you are in the Catalan, neither do you me. So less snark is generally better :) I said I had spent the afternoon playing this exact line - reasonably high level game against someone around 2100 Fide. I also said it was the Catalan. Just not a good line - lets not get into why I played it, but White really doesn't get comp. Lakdawska agrees with me (as does Arukh I think, don't have his d4 book to hand), whilst I think Perelshteyn would more likely agree with you. But 'classical' Catalan (the stuff Romanishin pays his bills with) this is not, and there are better options for White early on than struggling to make some nebulous initiative work.
pfren I agree - my garden would look nicer, and databases would have far less random games. But what can you do... that said, my DB shows White has a better score against Bf5 (and I've never been convinced by the analysis Vigus gives in Play the Slav in this line), but scores worse against dc, b5 set ups. Doesn't include many cc games though.
as does Arukh I think, don't have his d4 book to hand
You could look at what the GM PLAYS on the board, not what he recommends in his commercial work... :P
Here's a game which is more testing than the ...b5 line you suggest, which transposes to a line of the open Catalan which is fine for white (true, Chucky managed to hold it against Topalov, but he had a difficult game). Avrukh is superbly prepared (as usual) and gets a slight opening advantage, until Motylev blundered badly with 18...Bxh3? which is just a miscalculation. Then... Avrukh counter-blundered with 22.Bxh6? (22.Bxg4 fg4 23.Bh6 is resignable on the spot, the point being that now white can gobble the b6 knight for free and keep the deadly bind against the Black king instead of exchanging queens, since there's no bishop hanging on f3) and then somehow he managed to lose the endgame.
For the record, in his book Avrukh advocates playing e2-e3 lines against the Slav, but g2-g3 lines are equally good, if not better (and certainly more consistent to his repertoire).
Grumblesmurf,
I am sorry if my previous comment led you to believe that I do not respect your opinion on the matter. It is diversity of such opening that makes chess such a great game. Anyway, you are rated slightly higher than me; maybe I should just shut up and let you do the talking. ;)
Just curious; what defenses did you play the Catalan against?
I'm taking up the Catalan because I lack a satisfactory response to the nimzo (classical just wasnt cutting it). Ive just looked at introductions so far and it seems the positions really fit my playing style so ideally I'd like to get into those positions as often as possible, which leads to my question:
Can the Catalan setup be played against any black system? I suspect it can't but I'd like to know which ones it can't play against. (I'm guessing the slav for one)