Catalan Line 4..c6

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Avatar of BharatArora23

Hi..

I was studying 4. ..c6 closed Catalan line

8.. Re8, white can reply with 9. b3, e4 or Rd1

What purpose do these moves serve?  Thanks

Avatar of EKAFC

b3 protects the c-pawn and allows White to fianchetto his bishop on b2.

e4 just breaks in the center and threatens to fork the knight and bishop

Rd1 just develops the rook to a more useful square with the idea of getting the dark-squared bishop out and play the other rook to c1

 

Avatar of blank0923

I think if Black were to play this sort of closed position, the DSB belongs on e7 rather than d6 because e4 for white would come with the threat of e5, forcing Black to deal with this threat in some undesirable way

Avatar of I_PLAYLIKE_CARUANA

This is the main line theory of g3 catalan i had learned it from gm srinath and 3nf3 catalan is litle different and in three g3 catalam the knight usually goes on h6 targeting the g5 and the f4 square white usually tries to play h4 h5 and also have a good center control along with the control of c file and white has litle advantage of +1

Avatar of I_PLAYLIKE_CARUANA

 

Avatar of tygxc

#3
...Bd6 and ...Re8 are to prepare ....e5 like in this game, where the position was reached by transposition:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018392

The same players played a Catalan by a different move order and there ...Be7 was the choice:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1259007 

Avatar of blank0923

Hmm, just ran it briefly through an engine, it seems that this line is very playable for Black. Learn something new every day

Avatar of BharatArora23
tygxc wrote:

#3
...Bd6 and ...Re8 are to prepare ....e5 like in this game, where the position was reached by transposition:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1018392

The same players played a Catalan by a different move order and there ...Be7 was the choice:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1259007 

Thanks

Avatar of pfren
blank0923 wrote:

I think if Black were to play this sort of closed position, the DSB belongs on e7 rather than d6 because e4 for white would come with the threat of e5, forcing Black to deal with this threat in some undesirable way

 

Actually this particular setup with a bishop on d6 is quite a good way to play as Black.

Usually Black goes for it with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Bd6, when the d2 square is occupied by the white bishop and a knight cannot go there.

The problem with the line played is that white can play (instead of 8.Nbd2) 8.Nfd2!? with the obvious idea of playing Nc3 next, and reinforcing the e2-e4 break. But currently it's not thought that this causes major issues to Black.

Avatar of sndeww
blank0923 wrote:

I think if Black were to play this sort of closed position, the DSB belongs on e7 rather than d6 because e4 for white would come with the threat of e5, forcing Black to deal with this threat in some undesirable way

In GM 1 by Avrukh (the new one) he recommends this setup as white against Be7 only. Against Bd6 I think that earlier, Nfd2, Nc3, e4 is much stronger because the bishop on d6 is hit. It also scores around 80-something for white in the masters database (my memory may be wrong) so it’s probably not so easy to play as black.

Avatar of pfren
B1ZMARK wrote:
blank0923 wrote:

I think if Black were to play this sort of closed position, the DSB belongs on e7 rather than d6 because e4 for white would come with the threat of e5, forcing Black to deal with this threat in some undesirable way

In GM 1 by Avrukh (the new one) he recommends this setup as white against Be7 only. Against Bd6 I think that earlier, Nfd2, Nc3, e4 is much stronger because the bishop on d6 is hit. It also scores around 80-something for white in the masters database (my memory may be wrong) so it’s probably not so easy to play as black.

 

True. The Nfd2 idea belongs to GM Vadim Svjaginsev.

I had a couple of quick wins like that as white, but I think that Black is OK.

Here is how a 11 y.o. Russian boy won against an IM. It seems to me that the opening was finely cooked at home- Avrukh does not mention 11...Bb4! which does look like a strong move. I have analysed this a bit, and I see decent compensation for Black in all lines.