Changing opening around 1500

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Mui

but then i chose a chess book for my birthday present and i found vienna and queen's

LordVandheer
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
gmdavv wrote:

I don't care what your "real rating" or whatever is. Either way, asking someone to play Ruy by messing around with it without understanding it first is dangerous advice. If you're higher rated like you implied (I doubt it), you should have known better.

It's not dangerous advice. It's so silly when some people say this. "Don't play the Sicilian. That's DANGEROUS. Don't play the Ruy Lopez. That's DANGEROUS. You don't know what you're dealing with!"

Like what? You could lose a game? That's all a normal part of learning. You play to learn and understand better.

Playing this kind of chess "with the bumper pads on" isn't 'safe' or helpful. People need to be exposed to new ideas and concepts in order to get better.

See you get it. Always love it when people treat chess openings like as if they are Rocket science.

Keep your doubts to yourself, big man.

SamuelAjedrez95
Fabilljy49 wrote:

I think they say that to beginners so they can have a good experience and not go too deep in opening theory, in the sicilian case that is a thing since only 1 move changes the entire ideas of the game and the position, but the ruy lopez i really didnt get it, i saw some videos and it looks like a pretty solid choice for beginners(if you cut out the fact theres is like 8 variations in the closed ruy)

I disagree about the Sicilian of course as there are many intuitive ideas and you can understand how to form a structure and an attack without knowing exact lines. There are also many possible deviations like in any opening.

It can be sharp so in some cases requires calculation but this is also a skill which need to be developed.

Mui

i love how you use emojis, they are the gods at expressing emotion

Mui

also i agree, forums are really fun at times

Fabilljy49

Guys, thank you for all the suggestions, i already made my mind and adopted the italian game as my opening for now, when i am more advanced i will switch again to the ruy lopez, both of them are really similar and i like the positional play of both(and if i have time i will try to study a book that i found of the vienna)

gmdavv
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
gmdavv wrote:

I don't care what your "real rating" or whatever is. Either way, asking someone to play Ruy by messing around with it without understanding it first is dangerous advice. If you're higher rated like you implied (I doubt it), you should have known better.

It's not dangerous advice. It's so silly when some people say this. "Don't play the Sicilian. That's DANGEROUS. Don't play the Ruy Lopez. That's DANGEROUS. You don't know what you're dealing with!"

Like what? You could lose a game? That's all a normal part of learning. You play to learn and understand better.

Playing this kind of chess "with the bumper pads on" isn't 'safe' or helpful. People need to be exposed to new ideas and concepts in order to get better.

You are twisting my words. I never said playing Sicilian or Ruy is dangerous. I said playing Ruy by messing around with it WITHOUT proper learning first IS dangerous, which @LordVandheer suggested to OP.

Ruy is highly positional and theory based. When I was taking lessons and first learned Ruy, I chose a basic variation and analyzed the meaning & positional significance behind every move. For example, start simple - why does white play 3. Bb5 in Ruy? Why does black play 4. Nf6? what's the point? Why does black play 5. Be7? so on and so on. Then I moved on to more extensive variations, and when I was familiar with most of the variations, this was the moment I started messing up the opening a little. I still won a fair amount of games against my similar rated opponents and achieved satisfactory results, because I had that understanding first. Later on when I was preparing for my OTB tournaments, I constructed a repertoire specific for Ruy. Notice the sequence of event here? First, just learn. Second, after you have that basic understanding, mess things around a little. Third, building a repertoire for tournament use (for example).

What is going to happen if a low rated player play Ruy by messing around with it directly, without proper learning first.

If your opponent knows what they are doing:

  • You are going to lose a lot of games
  • If you care to analyze your games, you will find lots of tactical and positional blunders, and you don't understand why
  • When you look to engine for help, it will divert you back to theory in the opening phase

If both of you don't know what you are doing:

  • your games will be on the next Guess the Elo episodes. 

No credited coaches would suggest a 1500 player play Ruy by messing around with it, when they haven't even practiced other areas of chess enough. Even 2000+ rated players occasionally blunder a piece in the opening in Ruy. I've met a few of them.

gmdavv
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

There are a lot of coaches who will tell you that openings are important. Learning about tactics, positional concepts and structures defined by the opening helps you understand the game.

I want to bet that those coaches didn't say openings are more important than tactics at 1500(and below) level. You got the sequence wrong. Tactics don't come from openings. When I was taking lessons my coach (JB) told me that tactics come first, then opening/positional chess. I was still reading a whole tactic book when I was 1800. Tactics come a LONG WAY. It has helped me win tons of games regardless of rating level. I didn't touch positional concepts until I was 1700. Opening is important, yes, but is not THAT important when you are lower rated and you should spend most of your energy on other things, tactics, endgame, etc.

gmdavv
LordVandheer wrote:

See you get it. Always love it when people treat chess openings like as if they are Rocket science.

Keep your doubts to yourself, big man.

If you want to mess around with chess and just purely have fun, go ahead, no one is stopping you. I also did this sometimes, late night blitz or bullet arena and not caring about winning and losing...messing everything up. But If you want to seriously learn chess and grow, learn and play the Ruy properly.

gmdavv

There are 15 variations in closed Ruy - Chigorin, Zaitsev, and Breyer. There are total 67 variations when I learned

Mui

try using Chessable, they have many good openings for your level and you can learn them really well because of how they teach it (this is not a paid advertisement)

ArjunNinjaX150

I love the Catalan (for white)

It is just so much fun to play with and is VERY annoying to face.

The Catalan doesn't have (too) much theory and it can be play at all levels. (Magnus Carlsen is the best example).

If you don't get a real Catalan on the board, you can still incorporate the similar ideas.

I love the Caro-Kann for black (against 1e4)

For the same reasons as the Catalan: Very easy to learn the theory. It's extremely straightforward and is a PAIN to deal with.

I also love the King's Indian Defence (against 1.d4 or 1.c4) for the same reasons above. However, the KID does have a LOT of theory you have to study.

The engine hates it but it's still an amazing option.