Chess opening principles defiled and i dont know why.

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d18thday

Hello guys. I spent some time studying chess with the Chessmaster grandmaster software and i must say that chess is quite so complicated as just when you think you figured it out, something happens that lets you know that you havent. I decided to visit the Waitzkin playing white vs Palatnik playing black game and here are set of moves that i honestly dont understand. After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 c*d4, then here is where problem starts. Waitzkin plays N*d4. If i can understand how solid this move is and why, it could improve my chess understanding but i dont. He has played a gambit that exchanges a center for a side pawn and i find that dubious and then he captures with his knight on f3 which can be easily met by e7-e5. Is there a trap somewhere or why does such opening play by white seem so disadvantagous yet played by such a strong player. Surprisingly, mr Palatnik avoids a chance to both develop and attack the Knight at the same time. I need someone to please help explain this as simply as possible.

notmtwain
d18thday wrote:

 

Hello guys. I spent some time studying chess with the Chessmaster grandmaster software and i must say that chess is quite so complicated as just when you think you figured it out, something happens that lets you know that you havent. I decided to visit the Waitzkin playing white vs Palatnik playing black game and here are set of moves that i honestly dont understand. After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 c*d4, then here is where problem starts. Waitzkin plays N*d4. If i can understand how solid this move is and why, it could improve my chess understanding but i dont. He has played a gambit that exchanges a center for a side pawn and i find that dubious and then he captures with his knight on f3 which can be easily met by e2-e4. Is there a trap somewhere or why does such opening play by white seem so disadvantagous yet played by such a strong player. Surprisingly, mr Palatnik avoids a chance to both develop and attack the Knight at the same time. I need someone to please help explain this as simply as possible.


That is called the Sicilian Defense. You notice good things and ask many good questions. However, it would be very difficult to answer you simply.

It is one of the most popular openings and grandmasters have written hundreds of books attempting to explain it.

I looked for a basic article or video lecture posted here but I couldn't find one.  I am sure somebody else here will have a suggestion.

Portions of Chess Openings for Dummies including much of the chapter related to the Sicilian are available online in the US through Google books.  (I don't know if they work overseas.)  

justus_jep

This is a quote from Reuben Fine, The ideas behind chess openings: 

"It is perhaps not generally realized that opening theory in chess procceds on certain definite assumptions. They are simple enough and once learned they will never be forgotten. They are:

1. In the initial position, White, because of the extra move has a slight advantage. Consequently:

2. White problem in the opening is to secure the better position, while

3. Black's problem is to secure equlity.

The elaborations  of these questions in each individual case is what is meant by "the theory of the openings". Once questions 2 or 3 is cleary answered, the theory is satisfied and the rest is left to mortal men.

As yet, however, nobody has found a method of determining values which is superior to that of good master practice. That is, by sticking to well established rules and principles we get to a position where there are pros and cons for both sides."

Then Reuben lists 10 general opening guidelines but also warns about many exceptions.  Here's a simple example:



DiogenesDue

i find that dubious and then he captures with his knight on f3 which can be easily met by e2-e4. Is there a trap somewhere or why does such opening play by white seem so disadvantagous yet played by such a strong player.

I assume you meant e7-e5 here.  The answer is that black might gain a tempo here by pushing white's knight around, but in playing e7-e5, black leaves themselves with a weak backwards d pawn that can no longer be supported by the now-missing c pawn.  In fact e7-e5 is sometimes played but is not the most popular response here because that extra tempo is more often than not worth less that giving white such an easy target for the rest of the game.  This is especially true in the mid-ratings levels, where giving your opponent a strong and clear plan to follow is not too advisable ;), better to let them go astray with their own plans.

TheRealPhoenix

e5 can be met by bb5+ right?

blueemu

Both sides gain advantages and disadvantages from the line you are looking at (1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4).

White gains free and easy development for all of his pieces, a more aggressive position in the center, an advantage in controlled space, and one extra tempo for development (the White d-Pawn moved once and disappeared from the board, while the Black c-Pawn moved twice and was captured... so White lost a Pawn and one move while Black lost a Pawn and two moves).

Black gains two center Pawns vs one (by trading a flank Pawn for a center Pawn), an open c-file vs an open d-file (center files are more useful for strategic pressure, while flank files are more useful for attack), and (usually) a superior endgame, since his Pawns are not so far advanced as White's.

Your suggested idea of e7-e5 is playable (and even good) in some continuations, but does not give Black any advantage in the current position since it seriously weakens the d6 and d5 squares (and the light squares generally, such as f5). White often retreats the Knight off of d4 voluntarily, to avoid seeing it exchanged by a Black Knight on c6... an advantage in controlled space becomes less and less useful as pieces are exchanged.

Yaroslavl
d18thday wrote:

 

Hello guys. I spent some time studying chess with the Chessmaster grandmaster software and i must say that chess is quite so complicated as just when you think you figured it out, something happens that lets you know that you havent. I decided to visit the Waitzkin playing white vs Palatnik playing black game and here are set of moves that i honestly dont understand. After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 c*d4, then here is where problem starts. Waitzkin plays N*d4. If i can understand how solid this move is and why, it could improve my chess understanding but i dont. He has played a gambit that exchanges a center for a side pawn and i find that dubious and then he captures with his knight on f3 which can be easily met by e2-e4. Is there a trap somewhere or why does such opening play by white seem so disadvantagous yet played by such a strong player. Surprisingly, mr Palatnik avoids a chance to both develop and attack the Knight at the same time. I need someone to please help explain this as simply as possible.

It is probable that the following info. will help you.  Even at this early stage in this opening(Sicilian Defense), 4.Nxd4, it is only the 4th move, pawn structure is paramount.  There are correct ways for White to play the White side of this pawn structure known as the Jump Formation.  The answers to your questions are detailed  in those correct ways for White to play.

If you would like to know more please let me know. 


 

d18thday

Thanks everyone. I love the insight. It is becoming clearer that the trick is in identifying all principles involved and finding the most suitable of them all through experience play. Mechanical thinking just isnt allowed and it does take lots of practice and deep understanding to perfect these arts. Thanks everyone again for the effort and the insight.

d18thday

I really appreciate it and yes i would love to know more.

Yaroslavl wrote:

d18thday wrote:

 

Hello guys. I spent some time studying chess with the Chessmaster grandmaster software and i must say that chess is quite so complicated as just when you think you figured it out, something happens that lets you know that you havent. I decided to visit the Waitzkin playing white vs Palatnik playing black game and here are set of moves that i honestly dont understand. After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 c*d4, then here is where problem starts. Waitzkin plays N*d4. If i can understand how solid this move is and why, it could improve my chess understanding but i dont. He has played a gambit that exchanges a center for a side pawn and i find that dubious and then he captures with his knight on f3 which can be easily met by e2-e4. Is there a trap somewhere or why does such opening play by white seem so disadvantagous yet played by such a strong player. Surprisingly, mr Palatnik avoids a chance to both develop and attack the Knight at the same time. I need someone to please help explain this as simply as possible.

It is probable that the following info. will help you.  Even at this early stage in this opening(Sicilian Defense), 4.Nxd4, it is only the 4th move, pawn structure is paramount.  There are correct ways for White to play the White side of this pawn structure known as the Jump Formation.  The answers to your questions are detailed  in those correct ways for White to play.

If you would like to know more please let me know. 

 

spikestars

lol main line sicilian.. Dubious I think not

Sac4win

Even I believe that, since sicilian played by many GM but I never played that opening successfully.

Black remain behind in development through out the game.

TBentley

Actually the idea of e5 is fine, but move 4 is too soon.

Time4Tea

TBentley wrote:

Actually the idea of e5 is fine, but move 4 is too soon.

Yes. I believe Black usually only plays ..e5 after either ..a6 (Najdorf) or ..Nc6 (Sveshnikov), to prevent the Bb5+. Also, the OP claims that White is violating opening principles, however so is Black, as they have yet to develop a single piece and White's Knight has already moved 2-3 times and occupied the center.

d18thday

Thanks. That's another way of looking at it, white seemingly violates d rules but so does black.

Time4Tea wrote:

TBentley wrote:

Actually the idea of e5 is fine, but move 4 is too soon.

Yes. I believe Black usually only plays ..e5 after either ..a6 (Najdorf) or ..Nc6 (Sveshnikov), to prevent the Bb5+. Also, the OP claims that White is violating opening principles, however so is Black, as they have yet to develop a single piece and White's Knight has already moved 2-3 times and occupied the center.

blueemu

White is not the only one who can attack in the Sicilian. Here's a game from 1975:



d18thday

Thanks for this.

blueemu wrote:

White is not the only one who can attack in the Sicilian. Here's a game from 1975:

d18thday

Thanks everyone for d tips. I practiced quite a lot with this opening already and it does lead to strong positions for white eventually as blacks weakness is almost always so exploitable. I guess this is an example of where it isnt the best to give your opponent an obvious target. Black just did. His d pawn.