Chigorin defence Queens gambit.

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Avatar of jamesstack

Does anybody know if there have been any books written on this opening since Morezevich's book? Im debating whether to keep playing this opening (as black) or maybe totally switch over to the Grunfeld. There are a lot of variations in the Chigorin I enjoy playing but there are some that make me uncomfortable to play the black side. Here is an example of a position Im not comfortable with. Most of the positions Im  not comfortable with are similar to this.

Avatar of ThrillerFan

Not sure about Books, but Volume 8 of the Deep Dive series by Lemos (can't recall if he's an IM or GM) is on the Chigorin Defense for Black and came out maybe a year and a half ago.

Avatar of varelse1

Maybe ask Finegold? 

He used to play the Chigorin.

Avatar of jamesstack

Thats probably a good idea. I think I'll try to figure out as much as I can on my own first though. Ive been studying Morozevichs book pretty carefully here lately and Ive come across a new problem and that is that a lot of the positions seem rather drawish when white isnt taking on d4 right away and thats not what I want as black. As black I am looking for complicated positions where both sides have chances. Even Morozevich admits that the Chigorin shouldnt be played in important games like a world championship match or candidates tournament. He says its better suited as a blitz opening and a training tool to improve your chess.

Avatar of varelse1

I didn't really have an interest in the Chigorin.

But my buddy insisted I borrow that book and check it out.

Then he passed away a month later, and I inheirited it.

So I figured i got the book, may as well play the Chigorin.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
jamesstack wrote:

Thats probably a good idea. I think I'll try to figure out as much as I can on my own first though. Ive been studying Morozevichs book pretty carefully here lately and Ive come across a new problem and that is that a lot of the positions seem rather drawish when white isnt taking on d4 right away and thats not what I want as black. As black I am looking for complicated positions where both sides have chances. Even Morozevich admits that the Chigorin shouldnt be played in important games like a world championship match or candidates tournament. He says its better suited as a blitz opening and a training tool to improve your chess.

 

Every opening has drawish lines.  Even openings known to be aggressive in nature by black:

Sicilian (Alapin)

French (Exchange)

Grunfeld (4.e3)

Kings Indian (Exchange)

 

That said, the item mentioned in post 2 has some interesting ideas.

Otherwise, only other book I am aware of that is more recent than yours is the Move by Move book - do not know who wrote it.

Avatar of jamesstack

Im still interested in learning how to play the Chigorin well but I probably need a different opening for situations where I need to play for a win with black and my opponent only needs a draw. Any suggestions? One of my coaches has suggested the Benoi. Im also considering the Grunfeld. Ive played the KID in the past and am also considering returning to that...although there is a ridiculous amount of theory to learn there. Any other suggestions? The ideal opening would be something where knowing the general ideas is more important than memoriszng a line and that results in a complicated position....the more complicated the better. The other openings I play include a Qe2 line against the spanish where I sometimes castle queenside, against the sicilian I play the rossolimo, moscow and alapin. As black against e4 I play the french defence...the winawer against Nc3. Id be willing to learn something with a lot of theory if thats the only option to get a complicated game where both sides have winning chances.

Avatar of varelse1

I will say one thing about the Chigorin.

When I started playing it, a lot of my wins started coming before move 30. And I never ever been that kinda player, with my old openings. ( Like 30+ years)

That leaves a lot free time between rounds, to go get a pizza or whatever.

😊

Avatar of jatait47
jamesstack wrote:

Does anybody know if there have been any books written on this opening since Morezevich's book?

This one:
https://www.amazon.com/Chigorin-Defence-Move/dp/1781944253

Avatar of ThrillerFan
jamesstack wrote:

Im still interested in learning how to play the Chigorin well but I probably need a different opening for situations where I need to play for a win with black and my opponent only needs a draw. Any suggestions? One of my coaches has suggested the Benoi. Im also considering the Grunfeld. Ive played the KID in the past and am also considering returning to that...although there is a ridiculous amount of theory to learn there. Any other suggestions? The ideal opening would be something where knowing the general ideas is more important than memoriszng a line and that results in a complicated position....the more complicated the better. The other openings I play include a Qe2 line against the spanish where I sometimes castle queenside, against the sicilian I play the rossolimo, moscow and alapin. As black against e4 I play the french defence...the winawer against Nc3. Id be willing to learn something with a lot of theory if thats the only option to get a complicated game where both sides have winning chances.

 

I can tell you that I always recommend the Kings Indian Defense to French players.

Reason is pawn structure.  You look at anything that deals with pawn structure, like Marovic's Dynamic Pawn Play in Chess, and look at the chapter on blocked centers and pawn chains, what do you see?  A bunch of French and Kings Indian games.  You do the core course at chessmasterschool.com, month 2, the 5 types of pawn center, Closed, what are most of the games?  French and Kings Indian!  Yes, the French can lead to the open center (Exchange) and the Kings Indian can lead to the dynamic center (6 Bg5 Saemisch), but frequent is the blocked center with play on the wings in the direction your pawns point!

French - Black typically attacks Queenside, White Kingside.  Why?  Center is blocked and each attacks the side in which their pawns point!

Kings Indian - Same thing!  Only difference is the direction each side's pawns point!

 

There are 2 great books on the Kings Indian by Quality Chess that are not theory-heavy database dumps, but rather, covers the practical stuff you need to know.

 

The first is Kings Indian Warfare - which I am in the middle of reading myself (along with The Extreme Caro-Kann, French Defense The Solid Rubinstein Variation, and Chess Calculation Training Volume 1: Middlegames).  It does not arrange by Variation, but rather things like the g7-Bishop, endgames, etc.

 

The second, which I have not picked up yet but is next on the docket after Kings Indian Warfare is Opening Simulator, the Kings Indian, which is basically a problem book where all positions stem from the Kings Indian Defense.  This is practical stuff from that opening, not stupid opening traps in the KID.  This is more like positions maybe 25 moves in from actual games.

 

By the way, as a French player myself, I do not just play the Rubinstein - actually only play it occasionally.  I play the Winawer with 7...O-O, Winawer with 7...Kf8, Winawer with 7...Nf5, McCutchen, Classical (6...c5 against Alekhine-Chatard), Rubinstein, Open Tarrasch, Closed Tarrasch, Universal System, 5...Qb6 in the Advance with both 6...c4 and 6...Nh6 against 6.a3, and then I play 3.e5 (online live and over the board) and 3.Nc3 (correspondence) as White against the French.

 

 

Oh, and on a separate note, I see the Braves cap in the picture of yours.  Braves Suck!  GO METS!

Avatar of Capabotvikhine

There is a book that just came out a few weeks ago called, The Chigorin Defence  : move by Move by Jimmy Liew. It is a whopping 550 pages. I have thought about getting it myself as I play the Chig from time to time. I don't know much about the author, but I understand he has played the opening extensively for many years.

Avatar of jamesstack

Thanks for all the replies. Its tempting to go back to the Kings Indian....I used to play it a lot years ago but for now I think I'll concentrate on the Chigorin. In reading the reviews of the move by move book..there were some references being made to two other books. Has anyone read any of these? Do you think there may be an idea or two in these that arent in the move by move one or Morozevichs book?

1. Play Nc6 by Wisnewski https://www.amazon.com/Play-Nc6-Complete-Repertoire-Everyman/dp/1857445228/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Wisnewski%2C&qid=1586554383&sr=8-6

2. Chigorin Defence by Bronznik

https://www.amazon.com/The-Chigorin-Defense/dp/3931192288/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Bronznik&qid=1586555592&sr=8-5

 

Avatar of jamesstack

Oh...and Go Braves! lol

Avatar of ThrillerFan

I have the one by Bronznik - it is 15 years old and so it could be dated and some theory may have changed.

Go Mets!  We don't need a racist Tomahawk Chop to win our games!

Avatar of jamesstack

Alright...guess Ill start with the move by move book and see how it goes.

Avatar of jatait47
jamesstack wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. Its tempting to go back to the Kings Indian....I used to play it a lot years ago but for now I think I'll concentrate on the Chigorin. In reading the reviews of the move by move book..there were some references being made to two other books. Has anyone read any of these? Do you think there may be an idea or two in these that arent in the move by move one or Morozevichs book?

1. Play Nc6 by Wisnewski https://www.amazon.com/Play-Nc6-Complete-Repertoire-Everyman/dp/1857445228/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Wisnewski%2C&qid=1586554383&sr=8-6

2. Chigorin Defence by Bronznik

https://www.amazon.com/The-Chigorin-Defense/dp/3931192288/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=Bronznik&qid=1586555592&sr=8-5

Yes, they're both good. And the bibliography to Jimmy Liew's book lists both of them as sources.

Avatar of varelse1
ThrillerFan wrote:

I have the one by Bronznik - it is 15 years old and so it could be dated and some theory may have changed.

Go Mets!  We don't need a racist Tomahawk Chop to win our games!

Braves?

Mets?

Is there even going to be a season this year?

Avatar of jamesstack
varelse1 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

I have the one by Bronznik - it is 15 years old and so it could be dated and some theory may have changed.

Go Mets!  We don't need a racist Tomahawk Chop to win our games!

Braves?

Mets?

Is there even going to be a season this year?

That has a lot to do with me studying chess so much here lately.

Avatar of varelse1

😊

Avatar of jamesstack

Last night I downloaded the free sample of the move by move book and from reading the introduction and the first chapter I dont get the impression that the author has the same level of passion as Morozevich had for the opening and Im beginning to doubt that im actually going to get what I need from the move by move book. Does anyone know if Liew actually offers any improvements for black in the lines after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 pxp 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 a6 or after 5. e4 Bg4 6. e4 e6. Both lines are very complicated but it doesnt seem like black is fully equalizing and Morozevich didnt really offer ideas for improvement for black. Its really only for these types of positions that I would want to buy the book at all so it would kind of be a waste of money if Liew doesnt provide any ideas for improvements.