choosing a Sicilian line

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Avatar of Linkeroftime1
Optimissed wrote:
Linkeroftime1 wrote:
Hello all! I recently posted about openings vs 1.d4 and I’ve been looking at different lines in the Nimzo and semi-slav that provide tactical fights and kingside attacks. That being said however, I’ve also been stuck on what line of the Sicilian should be appropriate for someone about 1500 chesscom and probably approximate 1400-1500 USCF (my rating is 1649 provisional but I’m probably overrated). My goals include shooting for NM and beyond as chess is a beautiful game that I cannot stop myself from studying. My goal is to reach 1700+ chesscom by the end of the year but I prioritize long term improvement over anything else.
All that being said, I’ve been split between the najdorf (for long term growth and understanding of different structures) dragon (for aggressive attacks against the white king) and the classical (to get a hold of the scheveningen pawn structure, kind of a place holder until I’m good enough to play the najdorf). I have tried all of these, and recently I’ve been playing the dragon, but I wanted to get a couple opinions on different lines in the Sicilian that will help foster my growth. I want to learn how to play different structures and also play aggressively to train my calculation. I have also played the taimanov and accelerated dragon, but they both seem more like positional battles that can fall into passivity rather easily. I want to play the Sicilian to get into sharp must-win positions, because otherwise I would play e5.
The only problem I have with the dragon is that it seems like dragon structures are specific to the dragon, where najdorf has the scheveningen, boleslavsky hole and can also transpose to the dragon. I am having some success with the dragon however, im just worried about long term prospects.
Najdorf obviously hs the most theory, but will likely be most beneficial to my growth. I also think some ideas are unintuitive, but if I can get a good book that explains the ideas better (when to play d5 and how to protect the d5 square, as well as different themes in the structures) then I could probably find success.
The classical is kind of the middle ground. Only thing im worried about is that it can be considered too solid of an opening, and the gxf6 structures are unique to this opening, so im not sure if this is going to be a good option or not. I’ve heard it finds success at the top level though
What do you guys think? Im willing to put in the work if it will be beneficial to me in the long term, and im not a big fan of openings that are only useful to a point. I play almost all mainlines because they are the most sound and critical. Also if anyone has recommendations for resources on these openings please let me know (books courses etc.)

Long term prospects are terrible with the Dragon, once you're playing people over 1800 FIDE. Naj is better but Kasparov didn't play it. At least, he didn't play it with an early e5. You have to be so booked up in the Naj that it won't help your chess in the medium term. I don't even know what the classical Sicilian is for black. Maybe it's a resurrection of a very old line that was thrown out in the 1960s? You could do worse than playing e6, a6 and Qc7, like a proper Kan or Paulsen.

Considering my experience with the taimanov I don't hate the e6 sicilians, but it's not my favorite structure to play. They can be pretty safe and flexible but I dislike the Kan because it just seems a little passive. Something I might look into as a secondary weapon though. The classical sicilian is 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 with the most common response being Bg5, the Richter-Rauzer. It's a pretty common line at all levels, although less so than the najdorf. I have also been thinking about going the e6 route in the najdorf to transpose to scheveningen structures but I think the amount of theory in both lines can be manageable if I focus on the ideas in the opening.

Avatar of pleewo
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

@Linkeroftime1

Yes the videos are pure gold. She started off playing the Taimanov and later transitioned to the Najdorf, although she was using both to play primarily Scheveningen structures I believe.

These are the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/live/-LjprmtRCtU?feature=share

https://www.youtube.com/live/I3CC4vfZWQk?feature=share

There is also another video where she discusses some of her favourite games against Kasparov and they are all Najdorf Sicilians.

https://youtu.be/3dCh39RKOI4

Those videos are just a part of the main course!

Avatar of lb0301

Hi there, I would advise you against NAJDORF...

I had NAJDORF as goto weapon with black, but stopped playing it... You need to know so much, and can get hit always on all levels. The amount of work you need to put in just to play this opening is insane.

Most of the times NAJDORF middlegames are not intuitive - meaning that you can't play lot of positions by feal, you will just need to calculate (good moves) and good luck in games with shorter time controls.

When I play against NAJDORF I usually play quiet line (e4 c5 nf3 d6 bb5), and most of the times black would not get any dynamic chances ( what a irony ).

You will get attacked, and will need nerves of steel, look at Be2 line where white plays Be3, f4, Kh1, and only thing you can do is trying counter it on the queen side.

So many move orders, and if you miss one against strong players, you lose. I thing Gary said you should not learn sicilian until 2000 fide, in my case he was right.

YOU said you don't like structures that arise from kan/taimanov, that being said If you want opening that is based on your understanding of the structures try than SVESHNIKOV.

Edit: I never played dragon as black, but i know people over 2000 that uses it regularly. Since top players can play dragon why can't you? You can add me if you want to play some training games happy.png

Avatar of pleewo

Fair enough! I’m happy because you said Sveshnikov yay! 😁

Avatar of ThrillerFan

It should be noted that the Classical was one of the OP's candidates. He also says his anti-Sicilian worry is the Moscow. He says he has played e6 or Nc6 in the past, which means he has dealt with the Rossolimo before. The 2...Nc6 move order, which also avoids the Prins (5.f3 instead of 5.Nc3 in the 2...d6-Sicilians), can be used for the Classical. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6.

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

Don't listen to @lb0301. They don't know what they're talking about. I've done very well with the Najdorf, even at a lower level, and it helped me improve at the game.

Some people will try to feed you this nonsense that if you play the Najdorf at lower levels you will just lose, but if we actually check the database for the score we can see that black is doing very well. The same people will turn around and say that playing against the Najdorf is tough as white and you will just lose, which is totally contradicting themselves. So no matter who you are, what colour you are or who you're opponent is, you can only lose? NONSENSE. It's like they suggest every opponent you face is going to be a booked up GM who you can never beat when actually they are going to be a player like you who struggles just as much as you. If they are stronger than you, then they will beat you. If you are stronger than them, you will beat them. Simple.

It's just because they themselves are personally intimidated by it that they try to discourage others. They discourage others based on their own personal taste and failure. If someone can't handle aggression and sharp play, that's a personal problem not a rating problem.

You don't need to focus on theory as much at lower levels as your opponents likely won't know it much better than you do. You can gradually learn the theory as you work your way up and learn through experience.

Avatar of lb0301
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

Don't listen to @lb0301. They don't know what they're talking about. I've done very well with the Najdorf, even at a lower level, and it helped me improve at the game.

Some people will try to feed you this nonsense that if you play the Najdorf at lower levels you will just lose, but if we actually check the database for the score we can see that black is doing very well. The same people will turn around and say that playing against the Najdorf is tough as white and you will just lose, which is totally contradicting themselves. So no matter who you are, what colour you are or who you're opponent is, you can only lose? NONSENSE. It's like they suggest every opponent you face is going to be a booked up GM who you can never beat when actually they are going to be a player like you who struggles just as much as you. If they are stronger than you, then they will beat you. If you are stronger than them, you will beat them. Simple.

It's just because they themselves are personally intimidated by it that they try to discourage others. They discourage others based on their own personal taste and failure. If someone can't handle aggression and sharp play, that's a personal problem not a rating problem.

You don't need to focus on theory as much at lower levels as your opponents likely won't know it much better than you do. You can gradually learn the theory as you work your way up and learn through experience.

I supported my opinion with my rating (2300). I studied very hard even tho I started playing chess in 2018, without coach, or any help i improved my game to 2300 level. Ask any coach should you play NAJDORF, I think they would laugh very long very hard. I studied najdorf through David Vigorito Najdorf book, i don't study openings with videos.

Rating of @SamuelAjedrez95 proves it all. In my post, I didn't ever mention about improving anyones game by playing this and that, but playing najdorf when you are begginer/low rating player is not smart move. @SamuelAjedrez95 or Mattias shouldn't giving you advice because they never played on higher level than 1300.

If @SamuelAjedrez95 played once against stronger players he would know what i am talking about.

Avatar of RatkoGavrilo1

Everyone is hitting Samuel with the rating thing lol this is getting repetitive

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

@lb0301

It doesn't matter what rating you are because you are only talking from the perspective of that rating. If you are losing then you should accept the loss in good sport and get better instead of blaming the opening and discouraging others.

You're wrong because there are a lot of coaches, much higher rated than you, who would recommend the Najdorf and give the reasons I just stated. You start playing it and learn the theory as you go. If you don't start learning it at some point, then you never will.

Najdorf is a very smart move even at a lower rating as you can learn a lot from it and win games. Annoying, gatekeeping elitists like you just try so hard to put down lower rated players for playing it even when they do well with it. Literally just trying to make chess miserable for others and discredit other people's learning experience and success. I've had success even if it's not up to your almighty 2300 blitz rating standard.

Avatar of pleewo

To be fair, Chess coach Andras recommends the Najdorf and he’s an IM. So saying that it’s now false because it’s passed down to a lower rated person, doesn’t make much sense. 👍

Avatar of lb0301

Okay, i will make it simpler for you to understand. Firstly rating reflects how much someone understands the game.

I am not coach, i did not learn chess when i was 8 or 10, but i worked hard and progressed studied/played different openings against different players.

Secondly we can ask BEST COACHES and they will laugh again. We can ask Sokolov, Ramesh, Aagard, Kasimdzhanov… and they will tell you same.

(Contrary to your statement if you win with it doesn’t mean it’s good)

And i don’t know why are you so stuck at NAJDORF

EDIT : So if SOKOLOV(much better coach and player) says it’s bad, according to your logic, debate is over?

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

This is such a cliche gatekeeper argument as well "I'm 2300 and I keep losing in the Najdorf so YOU shouldn't play it either!" Like damn man, I'm sorry you keep losing, truly.

But hang on... then that would mean that all the opponents are doing plenty well in the Najdorf? Perhaps it would make more sense to follow THEIR example than the example of the one who keeps complaining about how much they're losing.

Avatar of pleewo

No, read what I said. An IM says Najdorf is good, so I just said it doesn’t make much sense that it’s now false because someone 800 said it. If sokolov says it’s bad, my logic is that if a 800 says what sokolov said it still makes sense

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

If someone is laughing at me for trying to learn something and doing well then they aren't a very good chess coach. End of. I don't care who you are. That's such a petty, elitist attitude that it disgusts me.

"If you win with it doesn't mean it's good" except it is good and we know it's good because it scores very well at all levels. All GMs and engines consider it to be an incredibly high quality, sound defence.

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

If Sokolov, Ramesh, Aagard and Kasimdzhanov or whoever tf is laughing at me for trying to learn something, well guess what? They can all bugger off!

Avatar of pleewo
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

If someone is laughing at me for trying to learn something doing well then they aren't a very good chess coach. End of. I don't care who you are. That's such a petty, elitist attitude that it disgusts me.

"If you win with it doesn't mean it's good" except it is good and we know it's good because it scores very well at all levels. All GMs and engines consider to be an incredibly high quality, sound defence.

I completely agree!

Avatar of lb0301

And you reflect. When I said i was losing in NAJDORF? when i shared my results in najdorf. And you have same opinion -> I beaten many strong 800 players with this all people should play it, it’s so easy, i don’t know why you losing.

I think i can speak on this subject because my understanding is much better than his. This ajedrez guy is rated as guy who asked the question -> they should have eqaul understanding.

It is like I coaching tennis beginner tennis player without any acknowledgment or achievement, just because i decided that my opinion maters or learned coaching on youtube.

Avatar of pleewo

Alejandro?

Avatar of SamuelAjedrez95

I already explained it to you, but you won't listen. I'm not just going by my own opinion, I'm basing it on the opinion of other strong players and coaches but you seem to think your opinion matters more that we should just follow everything you say.

Classic "Don't you know who I am, you freakin patzer? I'M 2300 RATED IN BLITZ! THAT'S RIGHT!"

Avatar of pleewo

@lb0301

I think you are arguing against Samuel’s rating more than samuels actual points and arguments