d6 or 0-0?

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williamn27

There are two positions to consider which one of the two moves above to play. 

King's Indian Defence:

Why is d6 more popular than 0-0? If the point is to avoid 5.e5, then Fischer have shown that 0-0 5. e5 is better for Black. What is White's strongest reply to 4...0-0 (besides Nf3 which transposes to the mainline) that takes advantage of the delay of d6?

I think 0-0 even has the advantage of tempting White to play the poor move 5.e5

 

Ruy Lopez


Both of the moves usually played after each other, but 0-0 first has an advantage of playing the Marshall Gambit. So why do most people play 7...d6 first? What is its advantage? And how to take advantage of 0-0 besides playing c3 which transposes to the main line (while also allowing Marshall Gambit)?

Kretinovich

0-0 often leads to the same positions as d6 but 0-0 is more provocative and tempts white to play e5 but can cause he or she overextended. Fischer played 0-0

RetiFan

O-O can't be wrong (except few cases where O-O is really a suicide). 

SocratesSidekick
williamn27 wrote:

There are two positions to consider which one of the two moves above to play. 

King's Indian Defence:

 

Why is d6 more popular than 0-0? If the point is to avoid 5.e5, then Fischer have shown that 0-0 5. e5 is better for Black. What is White's strongest reply to 4...0-0 (besides Nf3 which transposes to the mainline) that takes advantage of the delay of d6?

I think 0-0 even has the advantage of tempting White to play the poor move 5.e5

 

Ruy Lopez

 


Both of the moves usually played after each other, but 0-0 first has an advantage of playing the Marshall Gambit. So why do most people play 7...d6 first? What is its advantage? And how to take advantage of 0-0 besides playing c3 which transposes to the main line (while also allowing Marshall Gambit)?

 

In the Ruy after 7...0-0 White has the choice of playing an Anti-Marshall system with 8.a4 or 8.h3. The likes of Kasparov and Michael Adams have played this with some regularity.

RetiFan
Ed4ward yazmış:

0-0 can't really lead to anything wrong

There are several cases where O-O is just wrong. This happens mainly in French Defense as shown below. 



Merovwig

As my personal choice, I play ...d6 first in the KID as a waiting move to be sure my opponent does not get me out of my repertoire if he plays Bg5 (in such case, I am not supposed to have castled kingside).

In my case, it is a matter of transposition.

Here the study game so you see my point:

 

Erratum: 7.Qa5 is usually played before 8.g5. I don't know how to edit the move order in the diagram. My bad.

williamn27

If you all say that 0-0 can't be bad in the lines I mentioned, why d6 is more popular? That's what I'm asking, guys.

And also, pfren, 4...0-0 5.e5 White scores very low, maybe due to the famous game by Fischer. Maybe it's not that bad, but it gives me the impression that 5.e5 is not too good. Most people play 5.Nf3 to get back to the main line.

RetiFan
williamn27 yazmış:

If you all say that 0-0 can't be bad in the lines I mentioned, why d6 is more popular? That's what I'm asking, guys.

I think this is a matter of trend. For example, O-O is the most popular move in many variations such as 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb5 4. e3 O-O Nimzo-Indian whereas the major alternative is 4. ... c5. I believe nobody can explain why O-O is the main move in some of these variations and not in the others. I see O-O as a lazy way to play, if you forget the theory, just play O-O and you will be okay 99%.

condude2

I play 4... d6, and it's mostly because I've been burnt in the past waiting too long to push the pawn, and so now I do it ASAP.

williamn27

So, I conclude that d6 is played because in some lines Black is not castling short. 

Get it!

How about the Spanish?

williamn27
YuriSenkevich wrote:

NO, NO ONE CASTLES QUEENSIDE ON THE RUY LOPEZ. If you want to castle queenside in the Ruy Lopez then what you will play is not a Ruy Lopez.

I mean, What about Ruy Lopez when black faces the option either 7...d6 or 7...0-0?

0-0 has the advantage of playing the Marshall Attack. So what's its disadvantage?

(I haven't grew up yet, I'm only 15, and I didn't know exactly where in this thread we discussed about castling queenside.)

williamn27
YuriSenkevich wrote:

There is no disadvantage. Usually moves transpose to each other as no one wants to play the Marshall. No one wants memorizing lines to just draw.

If no one wants to play the Marshall, then it would not be this popular.

SocratesSidekick

YuriSenkevich wrote:

How about the Spanish?

 

NO, NO ONE CASTLES QUEENSIDE ON THE RUY LOPEZ. If you want to castle queenside in the Ruy Lopez then what you will play is not a Ruy Lopez.

 

Please grow up and make a little research before making this kind of questions.

SocratesSidekick
YuriSenkevich wrote:

How about the Spanish?

 

NO, NO ONE CASTLES QUEENSIDE ON THE RUY LOPEZ. If you want to castle queenside in the Ruy Lopez then what you will play is not a Ruy Lopez.

 

Please grow up and make a little research before making this kind of questions.



SocratesSidekick
YuriSenkevich wrote:

How about the Spanish?

 

NO, NO ONE CASTLES QUEENSIDE ON THE RUY LOPEZ. If you want to castle queenside in the Ruy Lopez then what you will play is not a Ruy Lopez.

 

Please grow up and make a little research before making this kind of questions.

and one more

 



SocratesSidekick
YuriSenkevich wrote:

Yes, of course White can castle Queenside but if you take a look at the database White castles short on move 4 most of the time.

clearly that's not what you originally said nor meant. enjoy the games - very strong players in all of them.

SocratesSidekick
YuriSenkevich wrote:
SocratesSidekick wrote:
YuriSenkevich wrote:

Yes, of course White can castle Queenside but if you take a look at the database White castles short on move 4 most of the time.

clearly that's not what you originally said nor meant. enjoy the games - very strong players in all of them.

 

Sorry but your logic is rather stupid. When I said "no one" I obviously meant it in a figurative way as obviously as in almost every aspect of the universe there are exceptions. 

 

Following your logic then everything that people say would be wrong as there are exceptions.

"no one" means "no one." i'm not interested in arguing with you about it. you made a claim that was not true and there's really nothing more to it. have a good one. 

williamn27

Please don't fight in this forum. I don't even intended to discuss where to castle ._.

pestebalcanica
TwoMove

It's amazing how some people are incapable admitting they were wrong, and move on. Castling queenside is  a viable idea in the Ruy Lopez. It's a fact, the end, next.