Defense to 1.e4 that is similar to Nimzo-Indian?

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couriermike

Hi, I'm trying to develop an opening repertoire and I like the Nimzo-Indian versus 1.d4.  Is there a Black defense to 1.e4 that has similar positional ideas?  Thanks.

Tactchess

if you want to play positionally vs. e4, play sicilian. The pirc defense may also have somewhat reversed looking positions of a Nimzo Indian type thing (1...d6). Play the Nimzo Defense 1.e4 Nc6 for a reversed setup. Unfortuantely gameplay will be much different. A big difference is white is never going to play f5, though he may play d5

Flamma_Aquila

I agree with Tactchess. There really isn't an "indian" defense to e4. The Pirc is the closest, but it is kinda backwards. As far as Sicilians go, I'd suggest the accelerated dragon, although the fianchetto is kingside rather than queenside. I play that just because it is very similar to the English I play as white. I play the Nimzo too, and there just isn't really a similar e4 defense.

The other hypermodern system that hasn't been mentioned is Alekhine's defense. You might try that, although I have found that at lower level's, nobody does what the book says the are supposed to, and you end up playing a lot of Vienna Games.

Happy_Ragnarok

You can play the French, which is superficially similar in terms of early move order, especially if you play the Winawer against Nc3.

Or maybe something like Alekhine's, which is similar in that it does not commit to a pawn structure early on, and aims to control the center with pieces in hypermodern style, but often without an immediate fianchetto.

Happy_Ragnarok

Scooped on Alekhine's.  :(

Elubas

Yeah as has been said there really isn't a defense that is so similar to a nimzo indian defense. You just have to find something else you like against 1 e4 Cool.

The same thing happened to me, except I was looking for a similar d4 defense to the french against e4. I came up with the king's indian, which was kind of positional and yet incredibly tactical if my opponents ever knew the book after the center closes with d5 (which they don't!). And recently I've been thinking I may want to play more solid, positional openings like the nimzo that seem more in line with my style, yet I still seem do the best with the counterattacking king's indian because I know it the best and my opponents know it less as white than against other d4 openings.

Anyway, you want to find an opening with a similar philosophy, or one that caters to a similar style of play. Both the KID and french are counterattacking in nature; starting out seemingly passive, but both can become incredibly dynamic. In the KID, when white plays d5 (or if he doesn't he'll look for strong counterplay on the queenside and/or weak dark squares and center), when black goes all out on the kingside, and in the french, any moment he may have a dynamic way to take over the center, and then his game becomes alive, or alternatively, he can look to queenside counterplay. Both involve maneouvering as well.

I'm honestly not sure what opening against e4 is most similar to the nimzo. I suppose some of the more positional lines of the sicilian, where black pressures e4 and restrains the center without advancing there so early while looking for q side counterplay, but it's still very different. You could also say some "hypermodern" openings against e4 but those (like 1...g6, ...Nf6, or ...b6) tend to give white more dangerous possibilties than a nimzo.

BigTy

You could try the Sicilian Pin variation (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4) which is probably as close as you are going to get to a Nimzo against 1.e4, at least in terms of how it looks. Unfortunately this opening is dubious, if not refuted, so you may want to look elsewhere, although it has value at club level, especially as a surprise weapon. Other e6 sicilians, like the Kan and Taimanov may be a good choice for you. They are usually more positional than the other sicilians, and the bishop often comes out to b4 to pin the c3 knight.

Flamma_Aquila
Elubas wrote:

Yeah as has been said there really isn't a defense that is so similar to a nimzo indian defense. You just have to find something else you like against 1 e4 .

The same thing happened to me, except I was looking for a similar d4 defense to the french against e4. I came up with the king's indian, which was kind of positional and yet incredibly tactical if my opponents ever knew the book after the center closes with d5 (which they don't!). And recently I've been thinking I may want to play more solid, positional openings like the nimzo that seem more in line with my style, yet I still seem do the best with the counterattacking king's indian because I know it the best and my opponents know it less as white than against other d4 openings.

Anyway, you want to find an opening with a similar philosophy, or one that caters to a similar style of play. Both the KID and french are counterattacking in nature; starting out seemingly passive, but both can become incredibly dynamic. In the KID, when white plays d5 (or if he doesn't he'll look for strong counterplay on the queenside and/or weak dark squares and center), when black goes all out on the kingside, and in the french, any moment he may have a dynamic way to take over the center, and then his game becomes alive, or alternatively, he can look to queenside counterplay. Both involve maneouvering as well.

I'm honestly not sure what opening against e4 is most similar to the nimzo. I suppose some of the more positional lines of the sicilian, where black pressures e4 and restrains the center without advancing there so early while looking for q side counterplay, but it's still very different. You could also say some "hypermodern" openings against e4 but those (like 1...g6, ...Nf6, or ...b6) tend to give white more dangerous possibilties than a nimzo.


Have you ever tried the Orthodox defense? The pawn structure is identical to the French.

couriermike

Thanks for all your ideas.

MrNimzoIndian
BigTy wrote:

You could try the Sicilian Pin variation (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4) which is probably as close as you are going to get to a Nimzo against 1.e4, at least in terms of how it looks. Unfortunately this opening is dubious, if not refuted, so you may want to look elsewhere, although it has value at club level, especially as a surprise weapon. Other e6 sicilians, like the Kan and Taimanov may be a good choice for you. They are usually more positional than the other sicilians, and the bishop often comes out to b4 to pin the c3 knight.


Yes....

BigTy
Conzipe wrote:

Isn't the Sicilian pin variation considered refuted/very bad for black?

I remember something about white going e5 then following up with Qg4 which led to a very bad position for black.

Also the variation misses move-order proof, it's quite annoying if white where to play 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc3 for examle.


Yes it is very bad, maybe even refuted, but the refutation is quite tactically complex and many white players, me included, would feel uncomfortable trying to refute it OTB without previous study. So at club level it might net a few victories, at least until your opponents look up the theory on it. You are right though, it is not move-order friendly, so I wouldn't recommend it as a main defence for black, maybe as a surprise weapon though. The Kan and Taimanov are much better choices if you want to bring your dark-squared bishop out to b4 at some point.

Tigranfan

I agree with Conzipe.  The French Defense, especially the Winawer Variation, is the closest to the Nimzo-Indian. It establishes a closed position, trades King's Bishop for Queen's Knight and then blockades.   It is more risky than the Nimzo, however.  

No opening can avoid tactics forever, so even if you have a positional repertoire, be advised that you must be ready for tactics at all times.    

Tigranfan

Another defense with some similar ideas (e.g. blockade) to the Nimzo-Indian, besides the French, is the Nimzovich Defense 1.e4, Nc6.  But it is not easy to play as Black.   

rtc3

Both the Sicilian and the Nimzo-Indian can lead to hedgehog type formations for black I believe, so there is some similarity.

Unfortunately I think that all hyper-modern defenses against e4 tend to much different in nature from the Nimzo, being more counter-attacking.

One key difference is that in the nimzo black can delay or even stop e4, while only c5 and e5 do anything similar against e4.

I wonder if it would help to see what the most poular defense to e4 was among masters who play the nimzo/qid. I do not know how one could learn this though. . .

Punky81

Bump... It looks like Kramnik plays a lot of nimzo and pairs it with a lot of classical sicilian, sveshnikov, and of course Berlin Wall. Anybody have any thoughts on how these compare to nimzo?

lolurspammed

Yasser made a lecture defending the pin variation not too long ago, so I don't think it's refuted or bad.

NBKXX
couriermike wrote:

Hi, I'm trying to develop an opening repertoire and I like the Nimzo-Indian versus 1.d4.  Is there a Black defense to 1.e4 that has similar positional ideas?  Thanks.

Taimanov-Sicilian. Mark Taimanov was a huge expert and fanatic fan of the Nimzo-Indian. He loved to play it with both colours. Against e4 he usually played his line in the sicilian, which looks similiar to the nimzo sometimes. For example:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be2 a6 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Be3 Bb4

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.0-0-0 Bb4

NBKXX
lolurspammed wrote:

Yasser made a lecture defending the pin variation not too long ago, so I don't think it's refuted or bad.

The pin variation is very bad, but White must know a few lines.

kindaspongey

If i remember correctly, the Nimzo-Indian and the Hyper Accelerated Dragon were suggested in Chess Openings for Black Explained by Alburt, Dzindzichashvili, & Perelshteyn.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627060405/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen75.pdf

Commando_Droid

The Caro-kan is solid. The Sicilian is sharp but reliable.