True, there are a lot of subvariations. Not all of them are ridiculous: there are some laughable ones as well.
That 6.Qa4 is a terrific idea. How many hours your Houdini thought before suggesting that?
Quiet moves don't seem to give Black any problems e.g. 6.Bg5 Bg7 7.Qd2 d6 or 6.Bf4 d6 or 6.g3 Bg7 7.Bg2 Nc6
wow that's a ridiculous opening idea, i can't make any sense of any of those moves. in particular 2.f5 is already not a great plan at al in the english if you're already played c5
Black seeks to restrain e4 and be able to meet d4 with cxd4 and then follow with g6/Bg7. What is ridiculous about this? Black has a clear strategic goal. He prevents White from occupying the center with his pawns. Given time, Black will soon follow with e5.
It is generally agreed that it is desirable to swap a wing pawn for a center pawn. Here Black swaps his c-pawn for White's d-pawn and even though White gains a tempo with the swap, what does White do with his Queen Bishop? Because White cannot play e4, there is a danger that White might have to lock in the Bishop with a early e3 so that White can castle. The alternative is to play g3/Bg2, but this gives Black time to play Bg7/Nc6 with a good game.
White can just play 6.g3 Nc6 7.Bg2 Bg7 8.0-0 0-0 and you get a position which has been played on master level with excellent results for white.
True, there are a lot of subvariations. Not all of them are ridiculous: there are some laughable ones as well.
That 6.Qa4 is a terrific idea. How many hours your Houdini thought before suggesting that?
Quiet moves don't seem to give Black any problems e.g. 6.Bg5 Bg7 7.Qd2 d6 or 6.Bf4 d6 or 6.g3 Bg7 7.Bg2 Nc6
Funny, I didn't realize developing opening moves were considered "quiet". In fact, 6.g3 Bg7 7.Bg2 Nc6 shows 100% wins for white on ICCF. That sounds pretty quiet doesn't it?
Would you post at least a couple of those wins so that it is possible to respond to them or at least show a path to a clear advantage White?
White can just play 6.g3 Nc6 7.Bg2 Bg7 8.0-0 0-0 and you get a position which has been played on master level with excellent results for white.
The key mistake is 8...O-O. Why not just 8...Ng4 9.e3 h5!
Here are a couple of them. I could not find many more, because only psycopaths play like that with Black.
Your last ...h5 idea is great for the circus.
If nothing else it is good for blitz. White has to do something about the threat of h4. If 8...Ng4 9.e3 h5 10.h4 O-O 11.Nce2 e5 13.Nb5 e4 14.Nf4 Kh7
True, there are a lot of subvariations. Not all of them are ridiculous: there are some laughable ones as well.
That 6.Qa4 is a terrific idea. How many hours your Houdini thought before suggesting that?
Quiet moves don't seem to give Black any problems e.g. 6.Bg5 Bg7 7.Qd2 d6 or 6.Bf4 d6 or 6.g3 Bg7 7.Bg2 Nc6
Funny, I didn't realize developing opening moves were considered "quiet". In fact, 6.g3 Bg7 7.Bg2 Nc6 shows 100% wins for white on ICCF. That sounds pretty quiet doesn't it?
Would you post at least a couple of those wins so that it is possible to respond to them or at least show a path to a clear advantage White?
In reviewing the games, it was all very low rateds as black that played the line. So most all of the games were not very useful for "theory". The closest was the last time it was tried, where black resigned early after realizing white was just simply up a pawn with a better position to boot. Note that the game transposes into your line:
In your line if 10.Rb1 h4! looks just fine for Black
10. h4 looks very silly, why are you weakening the kingside so much?
Since Black has not yet castled, what do you do about the threat of h4?
black has castled.
Check the move order I recommend, not the game---Black has not yet castled.
So, what's that?
White may stop you by playing 10.h4, or just ignore your fictitious counterplay and play 10.b3 or 10.Qe2. All of them seem just fine for white... 9...h5 is kindergarten chess.
EDIT: 10.Qe2 looks being the most convincing. Your king will die somewhere in the middle if you dare taking the pawn.
10.Qe2 h4 11.h3 Nf6 =
Here are a couple of them. I could not find many more, because only psycopaths play like that with Black.
Your last ...h5 idea is great for the circus.
I object. Some of my best friends are psychopaths, and only a few of them play like that.
Yes, an idiot would play 11.h3. A regular player, would simply ignore you and play 11.Rd1, when you may start wondering how you can put the rest of your pieces into play... (+0.76 according to Houdini, but I'm pretty sure that Black is painfully close to losing outright).
10.Qe2 h4 11.Rd1 hxg3 12.hxg3 Be5 13.b3 Kf7 14.Bb2 Qf8 15.Nf3 Qh6 & Black gets his pieces in play.
why would black ever play ...c5 in the leningrad? seems like a fool's decision. I can not name a decent opening in which white or black plays f4 and c4 (or f5 and c5), and not be clearly worse. Black heavily exposes himself in the center with such play, and often huge gaping holes arise.
Excuse me, but is it really necessary to insult someone quite so much for the crime of suggesting poor chess moves? I appreciate the explanations for why Black's idea is misconceived, but I find the cackling that accompanies it kind of shrill.
Excuse me, but is it really necessary to insult someone quite so much for the crime of suggesting poor chess moves? I appreciate the explanations for why Black's idea is misconceived, but I find the cackling that accompanies it kind of shrill.
It is also because the OP is a troll, that relies on engine evaluations of the opening....a terrible decision since engines are HORRIFIC at openings.
I'm not arguing the point that the original idea is dubious, just that respectfully pointing it out and moving on would probably suffice, especially if the OP is trolling (which I rather doubt).
anyway it's ovious that playing a move like h5 isn't going to be great in the opening since it defies all principles
umm...there are exceptions in the english where black randomly starts pushing h5-h4.
Regularly, it doesn't happen even in that case, but if the OP does precisely the same thing (nonsensical posts with utter crap which, despite his claims, do not hold any water even inside an ocean) endless times, then we can certainly excuse you, but not him.
Sorry, I honestly don't understand what that means - you're excusing me if the OP posts utter crap? How very generous. :)
Incidentally, I enjoy your curmudgeonly contributions to this site very much, pfren, but sometimes the caustic glee you take in mocking those you are presumably trying to help strikes me as a bit overbearing. For instance, in this case, the OP wasn't insulting anyone or engaging in otherwise trollish behavior, he simply was tossing out lines that he doesn't grasp as being bad. As far as I can tell, the only rudeness might have been that of omission - he didn't thank you for your help (which, to be fair, was a bit snarky even to begin with) or express joyful wonder and awe at the fact that you deigned to comment on his humble post, which, while clearly a forum faux pas, perhaps isn't worth the fully vented outrage of chess.com's resident Council of Elders.
Black can refrain from committing his central pawns and get a good game. While not conclusive Houdini 3 played aggressively against this plan and Black had good equalizing resources:
1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 f5! 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 g6 6.Qa4 Nc6 7.Ndb5 a6 8.Nd5 Kf7!
Obviously there are a lot of subvariations, but in none of them does White barely get to +/=.