E4, D4 or C4?

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Avatar of GrandmasterJohn15
Nice game! I respect D4 a lot. I used to play the queens gambit. And for an aggressive player D4 is the better option. However for a more positional player like myself C4 is the better option in my opinion.
Avatar of DrSpudnik
Optimissed wrote:
DrSpudnik wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
c4 definitely! The English is super solid and has plenty of attacking possibilities despite its reputation of being passive!

Any opening presents attacking possibilities. And openings aren't passive, chess players are. You can make any game you play as bold or timid as you want.

Disagree, it's a combination of both, isn't it?

Well, I disagree too. 1. e4 can be played timidly, or like Morphy. Same goes for 1. d4 or 1. c4 or even 1. Nf3. The aggression level in any game is in the hands of the players and depends mainly on how risk averse/acceptant they are.

Avatar of GrandmasterJohn15
Yes but certain openings have to be played aggressively and others more timidly. I agree that it partly in the hands of the players but also depends on the opening.
Avatar of AngusByers

Personally, I think when starting out in chess that 1. e4 is the best idea. The ideas that comprise "opening principles" are easy to apply and understand (get your knight our, get our bishop out, castle, don't move pieces twice, try and control the centre, etc). The games, particularly 1. e4 e5 games, tend to centre around fighting for central control, opening up the positions to get your rooks some attacking lines, and so forth. You can dabble in opening theory, although generally your opponent is going to go "off book" on you around move 4 to 7, so it sort of focuses you to work on "blunder control" and recognizing the potential for possible tactics, which should help you in your general middle game skills. I think the English, while a good opening, does require a decent middle game skill set already, and Queen pawn openings have a tendency to require a bit more positional understanding, making them a bit more complicated to really understand at first.
Mind you, such broad generalizations are not universal rules, and what suits you may be very different from what suits someone else (like myself). Since you are already well above 1000, I would think you've played around with the options, and so I would just say play whichever one gets you games that you like playing most as that's probably the one that suits you best.

Avatar of play4fun64

E4, D4 or C4?

It's c4, d4 or e4 alphabetically.

e4 is the most straight forward opening move as it open lines for the KB and queen, place a central pawn and enable quick kingside castle.

Avatar of Mazetoskylo
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. 

Nope. Opening theory plays no role when you are tactically blind. You may win a couple of games without actually playing a move, but your overall game won't improve at all.

Avatar of Optimissed

The role of opening theory for beginners, in the understanding of both piece development and tactical manoeuvring, shouldn't be underestimated. I also think it makes sense for a beginner to learn chess by playing 1. d4 at the very beginning although beginners need to get experience with 1. e4 early on.

Not so soon that they don't understand development, which is easier to learn in the first instance after 1. d4 because you immediately confront the problem of the difficult-to-develop bishop and also because 1. e4 ... e5 games are far too tactical to confront an absolute beginner with and yet if you demonstrate passive 1. e4 e5 positions, they get completely the wrong idea about how chess is played.

Hence starting with 1. e4 e5 openings seems wrong. It leads to weak players never breaking away from the four knights game or the Italian Quiet Game.

Avatar of Compadre_J
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

Avatar of Optimissed
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

Avatar of GrandmasterJohn15
I think you are underestimating low ranked players. I now several 200 ranked players that could block the schoolyards mate with ease. It is essential to learn a solid opening that’s not a one trick nuclear pony. Even if you are a low rating.
Avatar of Guonathonking

E4.

why? It’s a great move considered by stockfish. Im a 1200 so yeah

Avatar of Compadre_J
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

No, when they reach 1,100

They will change lines to solid line to beat those players till they reach 1,201

Avatar of Guonathonking
Compadre_J wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

No, when they reach 1,100

They will change lines to solid line to beat those players till they reach 1,201

Guico piano

Avatar of Guonathonking
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

What about the guico piano attack?

Avatar of Optimissed
Compadre_J wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

No, when they reach 1,100

They will change lines to solid line to beat those players till they reach 1,201

Um

Avatar of Guonathonking
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

No, when they reach 1,100

They will change lines to solid line to beat those players till they reach 1,201

Um

E4 bro. I anylized it with stockfish man. Solid postitions with the guico. Easy to make your opponent messed up.

e4.

Avatar of Optimissed
ryanguon wrote:
 

What about the guico piano attack?

My memory, which isn't as good as it was, tells me that 7. ef is stronger for white. Not 7. Bb5, which is white bottling out from a superior position because it's more difficult?

Avatar of Optimissed
ryanguon wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

No, when they reach 1,100

They will change lines to solid line to beat those players till they reach 1,201

Um

E4 bro. I anylized it with stockfish man. Solid postitions with the guico. Easy to make your opponent messed up.

e4.

Maybe 1. e4 is the right opening for 1100s but I find I win much quicker with 1. d4 and trying to know the theory extremely well. Especially if they play the Slav. But it's more a thing for half decent players maybe?

Avatar of Compadre_J
ryanguon wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Compadre_J wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
Hey! It is still necessary to learn opening theory when you are less than 1700. Yes it is also necessary to avoid blunders but good opening theory is crucial!

It depends on your ranking.

A player below 1,000 - I would recommend for them to play Scholars Mate.

It is a Chess Opening with very limited theory.

The line is also very simple for a person below 1k to play.

Also, If a rival person does a different move which isn’t shown in the above diagram it doesn’t matter as much because White plan is very simplistic.

A player ranked 1,001 to 1,200 - I would recommend an Italian Game 4.d3 line

Your opponents are a little better in chess in that range so the odds of actually reaching the above position is higher vs. before. Your opponents should still blunder chess pieces. Just play solid and grab the pieces they blunder.

There's no point because they won't improve if they fool around like that. They're wasting their own time and if they get a few lucky wins and find themselves playing against 1100s, they'll just lose.

No, when they reach 1,100

They will change lines to solid line to beat those players till they reach 1,201

Guico piano

Below 1,000 - Scholars Mate

1,000 to 1099 - 4.d3 - Solid Quiet Guico Line

1,100 to 1,199 - 4. c3 - Guico Center Attack Line

1,200 to 1,299 - 4. b4 - Evan’s Gambit Line

1,300 to 1,399 - 4. Ng5 - Fried Liver Attack Line

1,400 is Intermediate level - People like to switch to something different at that point

1.d4 line or 1. c4 line

Avatar of swarminglocusts
Optimissed wrote:
DrSpudnik wrote:
GrandmasterJohn15 wrote:
c4 definitely! The English is super solid and has plenty of attacking possibilities despite its reputation of being passive!

Any opening presents attacking possibilities. And openings aren't passive, chess players are. You can make any game you play as bold or timid as you want.

Disagree, it's a combination of both, isn't it?

c4 has a lot of knowledge of pawns and can lead to many different positions. d4 requires knowledge of pawns compared to e4. 

I agree the London is a good choice. The Jobava London is even easier. Your main goal is to push e4 as a pawn break. As white you can play the scotch which is simpler.it is e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 d4.