e6 vs d6 Sicilian

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Chuck639
Optimissed wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

Which one do you guys prefer against the main line in 1.e4, c5 2.Nf3, d6 or e6?

I was reviewing my Sicilian games to note I was running into a lot of anti-Sicilians where I utilized e6 structures.

I was playing around with the Kan-Wing Attack line and was actually enjoying it and may consider playing it live or even replace d6 altogether. No need to have two open Sicilian lines.

If I getaway from d6, I can avoid the Canal Attack which is a plus but I give up the Najdorf and transpositions to the Dragon or Botvinnik System.

I am in a deep think tank at the moment. May be just play some online games and see how they go before I commit to OTB?

I've been playing 2. ... a6 for over 30 years and have tens of thousands of games with it. I don't really like d6 because my favourite piece, the f8 B is trapped. g6 and Bg7 are passive unless white blunders. 2. e6 is fine with the move order cd, a6 and Qc7. I play a much more aggressive move order that can lead to wild games. My next favourite pieces are the c8 B which ofen gets developed on b7 but which can go to d7 and then maybe b5 or something and the queens knight which always prefers Nb8-d7-c5 or something like that.

Thanks for sharing that; 30 years is a lot of experience so I appreciate the incite.

I do have to review the Qc7 ideas but I am very comfortable with the O’Kelly and Katalimov lines with Bb7 as that is my favorite response against most anti-Sicilians for the enjoyment and straight forward strategies/plans.

Chuck639
Optimissed wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

Which one do you guys prefer against the main line in 1.e4, c5 2.Nf3, d6 or e6?

I was reviewing my Sicilian games to note I was running into a lot of anti-Sicilians where I utilized e6 structures.

I was playing around with the Kan-Wing Attack line and was actually enjoying it and may consider playing it live or even replace d6 altogether. No need to have two open Sicilian lines.

If I getaway from d6, I can avoid the Canal Attack which is a plus but I give up the Najdorf and transpositions to the Dragon or Botvinnik System.

I am in a deep think tank at the moment. May be just play some online games and see how they go before I commit to OTB?

I've been playing 2. ... a6 for over 30 years and have tens of thousands of games with it. I don't really like d6 because my favourite piece, the f8 B is trapped. g6 and Bg7 are passive unless white blunders. 2. e6 is fine with the move order cd, a6 and Qc7. I play a much more aggressive move order that can lead to wild games. My next favourite pieces are the c8 B which ofen gets developed on b7 but which can go to d7 and then maybe b5 or something and the queens knight which always prefers Nb8-d7-c5 or something like that.

In d6 lines, that’s what I call the dragon bishop. I utilize it for the fianchetto set-up or support the d6 pawn when I want to play a e6 or e5 line.

That dragon bishop is important for supporting that backwards d6 pawn but all Najdorf players know they signed up for that.

YYB6135
Chuck639 wrote:
YYB6135 wrote:

I wish I was able to follow this conversation, but I have no clue what’s flying. How do you guys know what each line is called and everything? I didn’t even get past Chuck639s question!

Don’t worry, I know very little as well but the little I do know I know well.

Don’t tell me you know very little. Look at this whole discussion!

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:
YYB6135 wrote:

I wish I was able to follow this conversation, but I have no clue what’s flying. How do you guys know what each line is called and everything? I didn’t even get past Chuck639s question!

Don’t worry, I know very little as well but the little I do know I know well.

Don’t tell me you know very little. Look at this whole discussion!

It’s because 1.e4, c5 was what I was taught and ever played or ever knew lol.

1.e4, e5 you are speaking French to me.

YYB6135

Oh. But I guess the lines after the Sicilian seem more complicated than the average four knights game…

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

Oh. But I guess the lines after the Sicilian seem more complicated than the average four knights game…

My coach at the time was a club player so I learned his repertoire because we had the same taste. So it was the English or Reti as White and Sicilian or Indian Game as black and I never looked back.

 

 

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

Oh. But I guess the lines after the Sicilian seem more complicated than the average four knights game…

I don’t understand e5 and life is too short to learn.

In the French, there are transpositions in the Sicilian so I get it.

In the Caro-Kann, they share ideas in the Indian Game depending if you want to push c5 or a supporting c6 instead.

The English is just the Sicilian with the white pieces.

The Reti is just the Indian Game with the white pieces or transpose to the English.

It’s really concise when you think about it?

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

Oh. But I guess the lines after the Sicilian seem more complicated than the average four knights game…

It’s about seeing tactics, ideas, themes, plans and strategies therefore in the Sicilian, it’s about understanding what to do with imbalance positions and creating counter play. This I understand and can apply.

4 knights? I have no clue. Symmetry is my weakness and will always be, hence my repertoire is built around imbalance positions and counter play.

YYB6135

Thanks! Maybe I’ll figure it out eventually…

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

Thanks! Maybe I’ll figure it out eventually…

You may want to reconsider the French Defense because you had the most success and white has less follow up in 1.e4, e5 lines.

You're approaching the intermediate stages and that’s where you start addressing and understanding middle game plans and ideas to further improve.

In the end, you go with the defence that you understand and enjoy playing.

 

YYB6135

What I don't get is the Sicilian to begin with: why are we moving the c pawn?

 

YYB6135

And I had the most success with the French defense?

 

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

What I don't get is the Sicilian to begin with: why are we moving the c pawn?

 

It fights for the d4 square, in general, you should stake a piece of the centre or at least fight for the centre.

The exchange of the c for d pawn gives Black a semi open c file for counter play and an imbalance position.

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

And I had the most success with the French defense?

 

You did. 200 games is  a reliable  sample size but it’s worth reconsidering.

You have to ask yourself some questions with 1.e4, e5 vs 1.e4, e6:

1. Which is easier to play?

2.  Which one do you enjoy more?

3. Which one do you understand?

4. which is intuitive?

You look at e4,e5, and look at whites second moves that you have to factor in further:

 

 

Chuck639
YYB6135 wrote:

And I had the most success with the French defense?

 

Database shows you played the French 199 times.

Point is you should commit to one when you are approaching the intermediate stages.

Chuck639

Breaking out your French defense against whites second move:

EvidentRoad
Chuck639 wrote:
chessknight222 wrote:

d6 for sure. e6 is so boring and white gets all the pressure he wants.

What do you mean by that?

As white I love seeing e6 on the board because it means i get everything i ever want in a position. If you actually want to test white you need to play d6 and go for a Najdorf or Classical. Playing e6 is almost like playing the Alapin or some other garbage as white. Super easy to break down. I can beat most of the sidelines with ease. 

Ethan_Brollier
Chuck639 wrote:
YYB6135 wrote:

Oh. But I guess the lines after the Sicilian seem more complicated than the average four knights game…

I don’t understand e5 and life is too short to learn.

In the French, there are transpositions in the Sicilian so I get it.

In the Caro-Kann, they share ideas in the Indian Game depending if you want to push c5 or a supporting c6 instead.

The English is just the Sicilian with the white pieces.

The Reti is just the Indian Game with the white pieces or transpose to the English.

It’s really concise when you think about it?

That's actually pretty smart. I have a few questions about your opening repertoire though.
You said you hate symmetry but one of the only openings where you can get away with symmetry and be fine as Black is the English, so how do you fare against Symmetrical and Ultra-Symmetrical lines?
What do you do against Trompowsky and Torre Attacks?
Which Indian Games do you play?

Chuck639
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:
YYB6135 wrote:

Oh. But I guess the lines after the Sicilian seem more complicated than the average four knights game…

I don’t understand e5 and life is too short to learn.

In the French, there are transpositions in the Sicilian so I get it.

In the Caro-Kann, they share ideas in the Indian Game depending if you want to push c5 or a supporting c6 instead.

The English is just the Sicilian with the white pieces.

The Reti is just the Indian Game with the white pieces or transpose to the English.

It’s really concise when you think about it?

That's actually pretty smart. I have a few questions about your opening repertoire though.
You said you hate symmetry but one of the only openings where you can get away with symmetry and be fine as Black is the English, so how do you fare against Symmetrical and Ultra-Symmetrical lines?
What do you do against Trompowsky and Torre Attacks?
Which Indian Games do you play?

Thank-you.


I mainly play the Katalimov Sicilian reversed as white; which nobody knows about other than my former coach and training partners because there are no resources on this unless you look up transpositions from the Nimzo-Larsen Attack line, therefore I have never ran into a copy cat yet because most sensible players will use the same defense against d4 for c4:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/57803370189

This guy name Bobby was pretty good with the line:

https://www.chess.com/games/view/176132

https://www.chess.com/games/view/181687

With regards to English symmetry, I can break it with the Botvinnik System particularly when black plays a fianchetto set-up. The center is locked and blacks bishops are useless enabling me to initiate play on the king side or queen side or back up the center depending on how black responses.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/19626053127

When I want to play the Dragon as white, I will transpose thru the Reti move order because life is so much  easier when you takeaway an early e5 and set-up is unimpeded. Some will call it the Catalan or Zukertort.

I play the Grunfeld with a preferable c5 push (to open up the long diagonal for the Catalan Bishop) or concede to c6 (notice I play this as white as well).

https://www.chess.com/game/live/44598551583

As white:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/57631848627

Against the Torre or Trampowsky, I jump the knight to e4. I rarely run into this line. Here I got flagged but was winning a majority of the game. If it was classical OTB I would have put the game away easily because the missed wins were on my side.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/5780641208

Chuck639
chessknight222 wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:
chessknight222 wrote:

d6 for sure. e6 is so boring and white gets all the pressure he wants.

What do you mean by that?

As white I love seeing e6 on the board because it means i get everything i ever want in a position. If you actually want to test white you need to play d6 and go for a Najdorf or Classical. Playing e6 is almost like playing the Alapin or some other garbage as white. Super easy to break down. I can beat most of the sidelines with ease. 

Thank-you, I will consider that.

Im going to review my Najdorf games.

I prefer the Opecensky lines when there is no bishop to c4 line (I will concede to e6). In rare lines were it calls for g6 over e6, I’ll transpose to the dragon depending on what black does.