Early Bc5 in the Sicilian, any good?

ConfizzledDumbDumb

I got an interesting opening today, Sicilian with an early Bc5. I look it up and it has been played by some strong female players, as well as Vitiugov and Fedoseev about 5 years ago. I am not seeing it at the top level. Is it just a surprise weapon to catch people off guard?

Also, what is the role of Be3 before Nc3 (breaking the guideline knights before bishops)? Is this something white should do or is it Stockfish inflating the evaluation with early moves?

llama

Meme name and profile pic

Joined 20 hrs ago
 
 
 

This has been a public service announcement.

ConfizzledDumbDumb

Can you now give a positional sicilian analysis?

llama
ConfizzledDumbDumb wrote:

Can you now give a positional sicilian analysis?

Trading off the "good" bishop, not putting a pawn in the center, and getting behind in development seems like a bad opening.

ConfizzledDumbDumb
llama wrote:
ConfizzledDumbDumb wrote:

Can you now give a positional sicilian analysis?

Trading off the "good" bishop, not putting a pawn in the center, and getting behind in development seems like a bad opening.

 

How does that relate to the Sicilian shown? What bishops are being traded? Was the pawn in the center comment for white or black? Who is getting behind in development? This is your time to shine. Let's get some details. 

ponz111

Usually an early Bc5 with the black side of the Sicilian is a poor move [as somewhat shown in  your game] 

ConfizzledDumbDumb
ponz111 wrote:

Usually an early Bc5 with the black side of the Sicilian is a poor move [as somewhat shown in  your game] 

 

Can you read English? If so, I invite you to read the original post and answer the questions. Don't just look at the position. 

 

Reading comprehension is a must for this thread.

tanvuchess

I don't think it was a surprise weapon. Your opponent probably didn't know the theory (4. Nxd4  a6 5. Nc3 Qc7). 

As for 5. Be3, it's threatens Nxe6! hitting the queen with a discovery on the bishop. White wins a pawn.

ConfizzledDumbDumb

Why do you think the Kan is the prescribed path for black to take? N could take e6 but Qb6 nullifies the threat. You also break another guideline by moving the same piece twice without development. It looks more like black's version of the poisoned b2 pawn. I am not sure white should target it. 

ConfizzledDumbDumb

Please keep a history of which fast food places I go to each week also. I want statistical reports and I will add reviews on how the fries from McDonald's or the cheese from Taco bell taste like. In the case of pizzas, I will categorize them by toppings and flavor of crust. If you need a secretary to help you, I can get you in touch with my HR department.

blueemu

What depth setting are you using for Stockfish? At any decent depth (32 ply, for instance) it evaluates 5. Nb3 , 5. Nb5 and 5. Be3 all about equal.

Out of those three alternatives (5. Nc3 seems to miss the point) I personally would put 5. Be3 at the bottom of the list of alternatives, not at the top, since you would need to play like an engine to hold any advantage after Qb6. My choice would be 5. Nb5.

pfren

5.Nb5 is the move that makes 4...Bc5 a very dubious business.

If 5...Qb6 then 6.Be3! is very strong, and 5...d6 6.Bf4 isn't pleasant, either.

5.Be3 is also strong, and may eventually transpose after 5...Qb6 6.Nb5!

What is appealing to you after 5.Be3 d6?! 6.Nc3, I just cannot understand. The bishop stands badly at c5, and white has a clear plan of Qd2, 0-0-0 and piling up against the d6 pawn. The bishop would be much better placed at e7.

TrainerMeow
llama wrote:

Meme name and profile pic

Joined 20 hrs ago
 
 
 

This has been a public service announcement.

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to post this here. Please let me know if it's not. But here are the last words of his previous account, @GarryCasperov. In what was a normal discussion about chess he suddenly started a political rant. I hope chess.com staff would take action to ban him from creating new accounts.

ponz111

Confizzled, you are very rude. My reading comprehension is fine and I answered the question of the title of this forum.

TeacherOfPain

Bc5 can be played yet it is a risky move in the beginning if you don't have a proper understanding of the moves that follow after it.

Also doing Qb6 was just killer because it allowed free tempi for white and eventually to exploit the position.

I suggest study the lines of Bc5 first and then playing it and if you are still having trouble to practice it with unrated games or against computers and see where you are making your mistakes in the analysis.

Perhaps it is just not a preferred move in this positions because it has been analyzed by master's already and had been considered not giving black enough, but regardless it is a playable move but depending on what you play makes it better or not.

ConfizzledDumbDumb
Steven-ODonoghue wrote:
ponz111 wrote:

Confizzled, you are very rude. My reading comprehension is fine and I answered the question of the title of this forum.

Don't listen to him, he's a well known troll. Does this to everyone that tries to give him help.

 

Sounds like you and Ronald are Zionist trolls. Why don't you go steal some other people's land.

 

Your burglar profile pic is very apropos.

ConfizzledDumbDumb
pfren wrote:

5.Nb5 is the move that makes 4...Bc5 a very dubious business.

If 5...Qb6 then 6.Be3! is very strong, and 5...d6 6.Bf4 isn't pleasant, either.

5.Be3 is also strong, and may eventually transpose after 5...Qb6 6.Nb5!

What is appealing to you after 5.Be3 d6?! 6.Nc3, I just cannot understand. The bishop stands badly at c5, and white has a clear plan of Qd2, 0-0-0 and piling up against the d6 pawn. The bishop would be much better placed at e7.

 

Let's bring it back to chess. Thank you for your input. I will look into what you stated.