Early move order in London system

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Cherub_Enjel

The OP is a 1300 blitz player. The London System is an opening where it's hard to drop material, and it activates white's pieces in an OK way. I think that's more than enough. 

triggerlips
Bishop_g5 wrote:
triggerlips wrote:

There is so much rubbish on this thread.

 

The opening is just there to lead to a playable middlegame. The London system achieves that aim,  No more, no less

 Not so after Black commit an early e6 where White can use the light squares to achieve strategic goals that can give more than a playable middlegame. The thing is ....why to play the London if Black doesnt commit an early e6? Why to play the Colle Zukertor for the same reason? Why to play the Torre attack?

 Whats Whites benefit from these openings with out an early e6 on the board? The playable middlegame? 

 ....and those who want something more from the opening? Lets play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 and pray Black to follow with e6?

 

 I hate to break it to you but if black plays properly there is no opening which wins for white. Whites aim should be to reach a middlegame in a position he feels comfortable in and knows how to play. And for many club players the London is fairly easy to play, and there is little risk of early disaster

Bishop_g5
triggerlips wrote:
Bishop_g5 wrote:
triggerlips wrote:

There is so much rubbish on this thread.

 

The opening is just there to lead to a playable middlegame. The London system achieves that aim,  No more, no less

 Not so after Black commit an early e6 where White can use the light squares to achieve strategic goals that can give more than a playable middlegame. The thing is ....why to play the London if Black doesnt commit an early e6? Why to play the Colle Zukertor for the same reason? Why to play the Torre attack?

 Whats Whites benefit from these openings with out an early e6 on the board? The playable middlegame? 

 ....and those who want something more from the opening? Lets play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 and pray Black to follow with e6?

 

 I hate to break it to you but if black plays properly there is no opening which wins for white. Whites aim should be to reach a middlegame in a position he feels comfortable in and knows how to play. 

 If you was right on this...then , there was not preferences that points out superior strategicall concepts to play for as Whites. Everyone should play the KIA vs the French instead of 3.NC3 or the Scotch in favor of the Ruy Lopez.

The truth is that chess is been played by humen and for what it matters there are choices that can increase the fact for White to have a superior a middlegame based on playing first. Everyone knows that chess with correct play is a draw, but sometimes the initiative causes mistakes, more than often....evidently.

yureesystem
dpnorman wrote:

1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 is correct.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 is incorrect, since after 2...c5 there is no good response. 

 

 

You are wrong! 1.d4Nf6 2.Bf4 c5 3.d5! is the best move,and any strong player know this; when playing a system and a player should not be inflexible in their thinking. The standard London system is not meant to play mindlessly, that is why I against low rated player playing the London, Colle and Stonewall, Reti, KIA, and English, all this system require a degree of positional understanding and not rote development.

Bishop_g5

Jengaias I quote you several times in the previous page and I still wait for your answers. We will not continue this discussion from the point you want...or like.

Unless your silence in my quotes prove that you actually know nothing more than claiming your beliefs!...in which I have no problem either...just say it different.

P.S : I have play more London systems than you have open with 1.e4

Bishop_g5

Jengaias wrote : White can't claim any adantage in Spanish.Berlin equalises , PERIOD.

The thing is that people , not even they don't stop playing Ruy Lopez. They prefer it nine out of ten.

Now...go again chech your stats and tell me after 1.d4 what is Whites more preferred second move irrelevant with Blacks first. Guess what? You will not find 2.Bf4 in the top three.

Shall we stop playing the London ?

Bishop_g5

No sir I will not. I prefer 1.d4 2.c4 and I play 3.Nc3 against 2...e6 inviting the Nimzo because I believe the 20th century was unfair to Rubinstein and after 4.e3 White has a strategicall superior game comparing to the London bullshit you all are get feed from the merchandising system who want to sell new DVDs and new opening ideas.

Take your electricity , smartphones and computers and go to London....I prefer my 20th century System.

Ok Kid?

Yigor

Come on, kids and dads, take it easy. happy.png

triggerlips

Bishop_g5 does have a point about the merchandising system.  All these IMs and GMs desperate to avoid having to find a real job, churning out multiple videos on any slightly offbeat system going.  They are promising an easy route to chess mastery, where none exists.   Is there any opening Andrew Martin has not made a Video on?

Bishop_g5

Come Jengaias...we know that you gave money to buy material for the London system. Don't feel guilty being a victim of the merchandising system. The youth of your age causes impulsive decisions...finally you will get mature.

The truth is that the London System has a wave in sales. I see it everywhere...Every YouTube channel that host a GM or IM plays the London. I have several offers in my emails to buy their DVD's.

Only GM Lemos has send me three different discounts to choose from...I feel if I wait one more Week he will give it to me for free. No one buys it.

Cherub_Enjel

I agree. The road to chess mastery starts with being able to play chess, not knowing the London System or any opening in general. 

Yigor
Bishop_g5 wrote:

Come Jengaias...we know that you gave money to buy material for the London system. Don't feel guilty being a victim of the merchandising system. The youth of your age causes impulsive decisions...finally you will get mature.

 

The truth is that the London System has a wave in sales. I see it everywhere...Every YouTube channel that host a GM or IM plays the London. I have several offers in my emails to buy their DVD's.

Only GM Lemos has send me three different discounts to choose from...I feel if I wait one more Week he will give it to me for free. No one buys it.

 

Might this surge of popularity be a consequence of Brexit ?!? grin.png

 

Too many unemployed IMs and GMs ? It's cruel.

kindaspongey
triggerlips wrote:

... They are promising an easy route to chess mastery, where none exists. ...

Can you provide a specific quote of one of these promises of an easy route to chess mastery?

kindaspongey
 triggerlips wrote: 
... All these IMs and GMs desperate to avoid having to find a real job, churning out multiple videos on any slightly offbeat system going.  They are promising an easy route to chess mastery, where none exists. ...

 

 kindaspongey wrote:

... Can you provide a specific quote of one of these promises of an easy route to chess mastery?

 

 jemgaias wrote:

... Here comes the protector of the interests of publishing companies(especialy newinchess). ...

Nonsense. I am simply asking what seems to me to be a reasonable question.

kindaspongey

The May 2017 issue of Chess lists the top twenty openings compiled from a list of 1810 March games where both players were rated over 2400 Elo. One can not take position on this list too seriously because it is greatly influenced by how the openings are grouped. For example, all the Retis are grouped together, while English is separated into 1...c5, 1...e5, etc. Nevertheless, for what it is worth, some of the list entries are: 117 Retis, 83 King's Indians, 79 Slavs, 78 Nimzo-Indians, 75 1 d4 Nf6 sidelines, 71 declined Queen's Gambits, 65 Najdorf Sicilians, 64 Caro-Kanns, 47 Tarrasch Frenches, 45 1 d4 d5 sidelines, 43 Closed Ruy Lopezes, 42 Classical Gruenfelds, 40 1...c5 Englishes, 40 Queen's Indians, 37 1...e5 Englishes, 37 Kan Sicilians, 35 2 Nf3 d6 sideline Sicilians, 35 Berlin Ruy Lopezes, 33 1...e6 Englishes, and 29 1...Nf6 Englishes

kindaspongey
 triggerlips wrote:

... All these IMs and GMs desperate to avoid having to find a real job, churning out multiple videos on any slightly offbeat system going.  They are promising an easy route to chess mastery, where none exists. ...

 

 

 kindaspongey wrote:

... Can you provide a specific quote of one of these promises of an easy route to chess mastery?

 

 

 Bishop_g5 wrote:

... What they provide with easyness is their content : For example " Learn to calculate like a GM within four hours watching a DvD " , " Crush White like a fly with the Nimzo or Black with the London " which are ...

Can you identify a specific location where one of these examples is to be found?

Bishop_g5

 Its easy...use your google search and type.

Yesterday i received in my e-mail a video offer from a known IM that say " learn how to calculate like a GM watching hes video ". 

The whole ichess.net and several others its a modern example of how merchadising  online chess works!! 

GM Lemos publish a new Dvd every 24 hours aiming at the club level. He has send me ten different opening suggestions to study within a Week. Even if i was a proffesional i couldnt do so...but who cares? Sales is what matters.

kindaspongey
Bishop_g5 wrote:

 Its easy...use your google search and type.

Yesterday i received in my e-mail a video offer from a known IM that say " learn how to calculate like a GM watching hes video ". ...

Are you referring to something that is available for free on youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV7YuP9mrvw

kindaspongey
Bishop_g5 wrote:

... GM Lemos publish a new Dvd every 24 hours aiming at the club level. ...

Can you identify two GM Lemos Dvds published in the last 72 hours?

Bishop_g5

 Here...read this book and learn how to calculate like a GM, if you dont make it till the end of reading its okay...you always have tactics trainer to work with.

GM Gormally has done excellent job presenting the ideas but even if i read it several times and invested time in each concept, still i dont calculate like a GM.

https://www.amazon.com/Calculate-Like-Grandmaster-World-Class-Attacking/dp/1906388695

Now, if GM Gormally had put a title like : Learn how to calculate in attacking chess, it would have be more resilient but less attractive to sell. When you put the title, leanr how to calculate like a GM reading a book, your intetion is to sell the GM glory and title not the content which is paradoxically insuficient. The art of merchadising.