Early Queen Development

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ashoffman
I have studied chess videos from a variety of sources and they all say to avoid early queen development. I follow this principal and try to stick to opening theory. However I constantly come up against relentlessly aggressive players, playing Bishops opening, Italian, Napoleon, Wayward Queen, Center Game, Scandanavian, and many others. I do my best to stop the attacks, but I find myself constantly on the defensive, and unable to have tempo for counter attacks. These players continually keep me from being able to pass 1000 rating, and I don't enjoy games against these players even when they blunder and I walk away with a win. St.Lois Chess Club and other spectacular sources, spend more time dismissing the openings, rather than giving solid defensive advice. I've found the Napoleon particularly annoying, and my initial play usually goes:

1. e4 e5 2. Qf3 Qf6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. d3 d6 5. Qh5 Nh6 6. Bg5 Bg4

(I apologize for not posting a game, I don't know how.)

Basically trading Queens has been my only real strategy as they continually find tactics when I leave the opponents Queen on the board. All help is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
jonnin

a quick database scan tells me that black has > 50% chance to win with any of

2).. nf6

2) nc6

2) bc5

while qf6 is frowned upon, amost no one played it.  The three I listed had 2 things in common in my DB... they were the most played, and white fared poorly  all of them!

... if you want to know what to do in these situations, try a database that gives the % of win/lose/draw for various opening lines.  It is a big help to me.   Also, I really do not like e5 for black after e4.  It is playable, but black struggles to keep up esp as a beginner. 

As to your original question, aside from the database of what moves to make, a queen that comes out early is a target.  Try to hit it with a pawn or a minor piece, forcing the opponent to move the queen 2-3 times in their "opening" and falling way behind on deveopment.   The key there is that you yourself have to be developing while attacking it, earning tempos against the opponent.   That may be challenging at your skill level, but that is the "idea" behind punishing an early queen.  If you can't attack the queen somehow, your opponent's move was not bad. 

Most of these players are looking to rip you up with the Q by hitting the vulnerable b/g pawns, picking off a rook on a diagonal, finding a quick mate, or other similar tricks to win material.   Learning to not let them have anything will win for you.. they keep trying, your position improves and theirs deteriorates.   Eventually you will find your moment to make this pay.

jonnin

Posting the game is simple.  Copy the moves and paste them into the board.  The board is seen in these replies, it looks like a chessboard and is a button on the bar on the top left for me. 

tmkroll
Here's some random stuff you might play. The main dubious move is Qf6. Also the idea of trying to force a queen trade is not right. When White plays like this Black's advantage comes from the White Queen being exposed. If you allow White to trade Queens you just have an even game. I put one or two Queen trade lines in there though since you said you want to do it and maybe this kind of opponent has no idea how to play if the Queens are off the board after all. I didn't check my analysis with an engine or very closely. They're just quick moves that came to mind. If I've screwed something up perhaps you can see it or another player will correct me. I'm meaning to demonstrate some ideas here is all.
jonnin

The center counter / scandanavian is an exception.  There isnt any way to punish the queen as white.  The classic line favors white, though; the lines where black does not retake with the queen are more equal and actually favor black at lower ratings because white has an urge to blunder in confusion.

The classic, unpunishable queen:

 

 

So what do you do here as white?  Ignore the queen and develop.  It can't hurt you from where it is, and you can't hurt it.  Get your pawn structure going, get your pieces out.



tmkroll

White already gained tempo on the Queen in that position with Nc3, has a piece already developed, and it's White's move again. It's not bad play by Black. Black sets up a solid defensive position with e6 and c6 and it's hard to break through but it's a bit passive compared to normal openings.

That said it's not my cup of tea. I play Nf3 in that position with the idea of d4, c4, and only then Nc3 without blocking the c pawn. Hitting the Queen with a pawn doesn't give White a lead in development in that line but it's a smooth, easy setup and still gives advantage to the first player.

(edit: if I'd read you closer you already mentioned the tempo. My bad.)

ashoffman
Thank you all for responses. I was nervous about getting ridicule for my noob status. I guess it comes down to confidence in meeting threats. Thanks to TMKroll, I
protanly
 
This game right here is a perfect example of why you shouldn't develop your queen early. Once white moved the pawn up to e5, the black queen had to either retreat to d8 or e7 (which then loses momentum), or to trap the queen in a spot where the loss of the queen was inevitable.
 
You don't need to trade queens in the opening to "prevent tactical plays" by the queen. Generally, I find you can simply develop your pieces like normal and threaten the queen that way. The queen will be attacked numerous times during development, which will result in a loss of momentum by the opponent as they shamble their queen around trying to find a safe square for her.
 
The game I put up is a good example of how a player can develop their pieces, and still prevent the queen from profiting due to an early attack.
 
While this may not be the same opening, it still follows the basic opening principles so you should be able to apply strategy like this to your games.
Fireline11
Okay the first step in beating a Queen-player, as I always call them, is smiling. Okay technically speaking bringing your queen out it not always a mistake, but a lot of the times it is. So you can probably smile. Enjoying yourself is important! Don't feel stressed though. That's not enjoyable.

Also, when your opponent plays 2.Qf3 you need to think about why that's such a bad move. It's bad for two reasons:
Bg4 might gain a future tempo on the queen, an eventual Nc6-Nd5 might also gain important time.
Secondly, with the queen on f3 the king's knight is not happy. It really isn't. Unhappy is probably an understatement. The knight is absolutely furious because it really WANTS to go to f3. It's his/her favourite square because it controls the center squares e5 AND d4. So you're opponent is giving you an advantage!

The problem is that the move 2.Qf3, although weak, does not lose. You're opponent is just giving you a little bit of an edge. If you're not watching out you might still get beaten! Therefore I always say: 'start smiling, but not dancing'

However, luckily, I have some tips for you! (To win chess games and dance more often) Always look what your opponents threats are. Is he threateningg your queen? Your g pawn? Or is he doing something else? Another thing to add is to always calculate the forcing moves. Forcing moves are checks, captures and threats. (For example he might push a pawn to attack your knight, or he might threaten checkmate, etc). You need to be aware of them, so that you will never be surprised! Thirdly I recommend playing long games. Say 30 minutes or more. I don't know if you already play long games, but my point is that if you have 5 seconds to make your move it is very difficult to see all your opponents threats. Don't even bother trying but give yourself more time! No one learned running before they learned walking!The way to do this is by playing games longer than 30 minutes, preferably with an increment. If you have 1 minute per move it is still difficult to check everything and you, as well as your opponents, will make plenty of mistakes but you will learn from them and grow as a player ;)

Another important tip is to do tactical puzzles. If you are a premium member you can do unlimited chess puzzles on this site. That's great! But if you are a 'normal' member the site still gives you 5, because they're nice I guess. But the tactics are timed, so you get more points for doing them quickly. IGNORE THAT! Hideous feature, don't know which dude came up with it, or maybe it was a girl who knows, but it ain't a good feature. You should be aiming for accuracy! Solve atleast 60% correctly, and make sure you see the entire solution in your head before you make your guess. If you don't see the solution after a while and you feel you are getting bored, or you feel like you're never gonna solve it you can make a guess without being really sure of yourself.

Also, I really don't like advertising ofher sites or something, but chesstempo has a good (untimed!!!) tactics trainer. Try it out! (But still play chess here because great site :D)

Thanks for reading all that and have a nice day! I hope I was able to help you.
ashoffman
Protanly, those are the kind of games I'd prefer. ;) I'll try to remember to smile Fireline, and I've always thought of the minor pieces as having the gender of their side.
vanjr1425

Bump. The early aggressive queen players are my nemis. 

Every source says do not play the queen early, but hardly anyone talks about how to respond to super aggressive queen play which can destroy you (er, me) very quickly).

jonnin

its simple enough.  You do not allow the queen to take anything and attack it relentlessly when you can.  Your attacks will develop your own pieces and gain control of space, putting your opponent behind as they repeatedly move the queen around instead of developing and controlling.  Once you have developed and controlled, you will have superior position which should lead to some tactical hits that should eventually result in material or a winning attack and the game is yours.   

 

tmkroll

Lol, if you peruse at my quick 3 year old not-engine assisted analysis you'll notice (among other things) sometimes Black should take on f2 and win.