Englund Gambit..your thoughts?

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Avatar of Infinite_Blitz
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:

If Qd5, then I would play f6 and boy lemme tell ya this variation is FUN.

If Nc3, then just Nxe5 of course.

But black gets a horrible position.

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
ChesswithNickolay wrote:

Not the best, white can easily defend. My first game against it went well for me.

If you could, post that game.  I bet your opponent did NOT play the englund gambit properly.  If black makes accurate moves, white will have difficulties.....Yes white will have the better position, but black can get counterplay.

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
freerobuxman wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:

If Qd5, then I would play f6 and boy lemme tell ya this variation is FUN.

If Nc3, then just Nxe5 of course.

But black gets a horrible position.

Again, yes like when Hikaru plays the bongcloud....The opponent gets a better position for sure....BUT it's FUN.  The englund gambit in particular is easily underestimated.  I have played it tons and tons of times against 2200-2300 players and have won most games.  

If you wish, we can play a game together.  You'll see things are not soo easy for white.

Avatar of Infinite_Blitz
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:
freerobuxman wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:

If Qd5, then I would play f6 and boy lemme tell ya this variation is FUN.

If Nc3, then just Nxe5 of course.

But black gets a horrible position.

Again, yes like when Hikaru plays the bongcloud....The opponent gets a better position for sure....BUT it's FUN.  The englund gambit in particular is easily underestimated.  I have played it tons and tons of times against 2200-2300 players and have won most games.  

If you wish, we can play a game together.  You'll see things are not soo easy for white.

I don't think it is fun imo. The only fun one is this

 

Avatar of CristenChess2012

 

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
freerobuxman wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:
freerobuxman wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:

If Qd5, then I would play f6 and boy lemme tell ya this variation is FUN.

If Nc3, then just Nxe5 of course.

But black gets a horrible position.

Again, yes like when Hikaru plays the bongcloud....The opponent gets a better position for sure....BUT it's FUN.  The englund gambit in particular is easily underestimated.  I have played it tons and tons of times against 2200-2300 players and have won most games.  

If you wish, we can play a game together.  You'll see things are not soo easy for white.

I don't think it is fun imo. The only fun one is this

 

Oooh that gambit is also quite fun to play if your opponent allows it.  I used to play it a lot when I played e4 (now I play d4 exclusively)..As for the englund gambit, well, I respect your opinion, but I find it quite fun.  More importantly, the englund gambit forces white to play on my terms (since I have played it so many times).  All their preparation against the typical indian defenses etc etc GONE and useless.  They are in my world haha.  

 

Avatar of pfren
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:
freerobuxman wrote:

You can easily get the pawn back, but you end up in a horrible position. it is garbage unless this happens


 

As I said in my post, playing the Qb4+ line is a terrible idea as most strong players will never fall for the trap.  I do NOT play that line.  After Bf4, I often play f6, which leads to an inferior but interesting/fun game where white has to be careful.  

 

White can trick Black going for the ...Qb4+ losing line by 4.Bg5! instead of 4.Bf4.

Now Black probably has to try 4...Qc5, but this isn't a position someone could envy.

Avatar of king5minblitz119147

that 4 bg5 line is what i actually use, after having found out it prevents the f6 line, without allowing anything great for black.

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
king5minblitz119147 wrote:

that 4 bg5 line is what i actually use, after having found out it prevents the f6 line, without allowing anything great for black.

The Bg5 line does NOT prevent F6.  However, if Bg5, I usually play Qc5 in response.  My position is inferior most certainly BUT again it is a lot of fun to play in my opinion.  .....After playing sooo many semi-slav defense games, indian defenses, and benoni's, I feel like the englund gambit is a breath of fresh air and removes your opponent's preparation.  They are totally on their own.

Avatar of pfren
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:

My position is totally lost most certainly BUT...

 

You made a typo- fixed for you.

Avatar of king5minblitz119147

okay, it prevents qxf6, if you want to be really finicky about it. you make it sound like everything else that black can try against 1 d4 is boring which is absolutely insane. there is a wealth of ideas waiting to be explored. you'd rather avoid preparation which at best only gives white a tiny plus, and go for broke in a position that for all practical purposes is lost. "Totally on their own" is misleading. The englund has its own theory and is not particularly hard to look up, and if I know that I am going to win if I follow theory then I have more incentive to actually remember everything than if it were a standard opening.

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
king5minblitz119147 wrote:

okay, it prevents qxf6, if you want to be really finicky about it. you make it sound like everything else that black can try against 1 d4 is boring which is absolutely insane. there is a wealth of ideas waiting to be explored. you'd rather avoid preparation which at best only gives white a tiny plus, and go for broke in a position that for all practical purposes is lost. "Totally on their own" is misleading. The englund has its own theory and is not particularly hard to look up, and if I know that I am going to win if I follow theory then I have more incentive to actually remember everything than if it were a standard opening.

There are many fun defenses against d4.  I just like to play stuff like this for fun, like when Hikaru plays the bongcloud.  When he plays the bongcloud, his opponent gets a big advantage.  Same thing.  All I am saying is the Englund gambit is not so easy to beat as you may think.  The engine will show +1 for white but trust me, in practice, it is not so easy.  From my experience, white can lose their advantage in a heartbeat if they play an inaccuracy/a few inaccuracies.  If you wish to prove just how awful the defense is, I would happily play a game or a couple games with you.  We can even play a long time control game if you wish.  

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
pfren wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:

My position is totally lost most certainly BUT...

 

You made a typo- fixed for you.

The engine shows +1 for white in the lines I like to play (not Qb4+).  +1 is not game over.  From my experience, white very often plays inaccuracies and loses this advantage.  And I play against strong players 2200 and above in blitz.  .......But hey look okay, I would NOT recommend this as a good defense.  It is a bad defense plain and simple.  But hey so is the bongcloud and Hikaru often plays it.  Why??  Because it's fun.  

Avatar of aviation18

A queen sacrifice is worth it after all happy.png

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
aviation18 wrote:

A queen sacrifice is worth it after all

Ohh are you thinking of the "unbeatable opening" from Aman?  Hahaha if so, then yeah it's really cool.  I have never actually played that variation but I may give it a try soon enough lol.  

Avatar of pfren
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:

My position is totally lost most certainly BUT...

 

You made a typo- fixed for you.

The engine shows +1 for white in the lines I like to play (not Qb4+).  +1 is not game over.  From my experience, white very often plays inaccuracies and loses this advantage.  And I play against strong players 2200 and above in blitz.  .......But hey look okay, I would NOT recommend this as a good defense.  It is a bad defense plain and simple.  But hey so is the bongcloud and Hikaru often plays it.  Why??  Because it's fun.  

 

Any modern engine shows +1.5 plus more after 2.dxe5.

But this is not the case, but rather that Black's compensation for the offered material is strictly fictitious.

Avatar of TrickyTrickyKnight
pfren wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:

My position is totally lost most certainly BUT...

 

You made a typo- fixed for you.

The engine shows +1 for white in the lines I like to play (not Qb4+).  +1 is not game over.  From my experience, white very often plays inaccuracies and loses this advantage.  And I play against strong players 2200 and above in blitz.  .......But hey look okay, I would NOT recommend this as a good defense.  It is a bad defense plain and simple.  But hey so is the bongcloud and Hikaru often plays it.  Why??  Because it's fun.  

 

Any modern engine shows +1.5 plus more after 2.dxe5.

But this is not the case, but rather that Black's compensation for the offered material is strictly fictitious.

There is no real compensation, I agree. Again, as I said, it is not good.  However, people routinely underestimate it and lose against it.  I have won over 70% of all my games with it (against 2200+ rated players).  Clearly, there is a reason for that.  Personally, I believe the englund gambit gives you a psychological advantage.  But yeah, white should not make the mistake of underestimating this defense.  

Avatar of wornaki
TheDoomSlayer992 wrote:
pfren wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
TheDoomSlayer992 έγραψε:

My position is totally lost most certainly BUT...

 

You made a typo- fixed for you.

The engine shows +1 for white in the lines I like to play (not Qb4+).  +1 is not game over.  From my experience, white very often plays inaccuracies and loses this advantage.  And I play against strong players 2200 and above in blitz.  .......But hey look okay, I would NOT recommend this as a good defense.  It is a bad defense plain and simple.  But hey so is the bongcloud and Hikaru often plays it.  Why??  Because it's fun.  

 

Any modern engine shows +1.5 plus more after 2.dxe5.

But this is not the case, but rather that Black's compensation for the offered material is strictly fictitious.

There is no real compensation, I agree. Again, as I said, it is not good.  However, people routinely underestimate it and lose against it.  I have won over 70% of all my games with it (against 2200+ rated players).  Clearly, there is a reason for that.  Personally, I believe the englund gambit gives you a psychological advantage.  But yeah, white should not make the mistake of underestimating this defense.  

 

Bumping, because I hate the Englund gambit. I've been known to block players who have played it against me (regardless of the result of the game). I simply detest it.

And, I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I sincerely hope all people that play the Englund for "fun" lose so many rating points that they quite playing it for good. That is the best that could happen to chess. That "tricksters" stop playing bs because "it's fun".

Avatar of DasBurner

Englund Gambit is great if you want to enter a worse position on move 1

Avatar of HNHNHNHNHNHNHN

It's just tricks only, if your opponent knows what they're doing it won't work well.