For Black, is Nimzo-Indian a little more narrow of an opening than KID?

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Samurai-X

I'm thinking about switching from KID to Nimzo-Indian (I don't know anything about it). Is Nimzo-Indian a little more narrow? It just seems with K.I.D. there is endless directions White can go (e.g., Mar del Plata, Old Main Line, Petrosian, Gligoric, Exchange, Fianchetto, Four Pawns, Averbakh, Samisch, etc).

FizzyBand

I mean...the Nimzo is much lighter theoretically but is much more strategic. There are a lot of ways White can play against the Nimzo though. 

nescitus

Nimzo-Indian is very flexible for both sides. White has 4.a3, 4.Qc2, 4.e3, 4.f3, 4.Nf3 and 4.g3, plus two minor lines: 4.Qb3 and 4.Bd2. Against each of these moves, Black has at least 2, and more often 3-4, good replies.

Nerwal

The Nimzo is much broader in terms of pawn structures; there are like 15-20 completely different pawn centers which can arise. That's why Nimzo theory is not really about moves.

punter99

I think it's a lot more work because you also need something against 3. Nf3 and the Catalan as well

ThrillerFan
punter99 wrote:

I think it's a lot more work because you also need something against 3. Nf3 and the Catalan as well

 

Not really if you learn to quit thinking of openings by name and learn to understand what you are doing.

 

I went from KID to NID back in June.

 

What is the whole point of the NID?  Why is the NID closely associated with the QGD?  Why is the QID good against 3.Nf3 but bad against 3.Nc3?  All of these have the same basic answer and if you cannot name it, you might know the first 3 moves of each of those openings, but you are totally clueless why you are playing them and will totally fail.

 

After 1.d4 Nf6, Black prevents e4!

After 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3, White threatens what? 4.e4!

What do 3...Bb4 and 3...d5 do that 3...b6 fails to do?  Prevent e4!

Does 3.Nf3 pose any threat to e4?  No!

Does Black have time for 3...b6 against 3.Nf3?  Yes!

Can Black dilly-dally after that?  No!  After say, 4.Nc3, the threat returns and Black must stop e4 with 4...Bb4, 4...Bb7, or 4...d5, but the last one makes little sense with ...b6 played.  Keep the flexibility.  Later you may need to play ...d5, but hold off until you must.

 

Quit thinking of the Nimzo, Queen's Indian, Bogo-Indian, and Catalan as 4 different openings and think of it as one cohesive unit.

 

There are other openings where Black's reaction at move 3 are different.  In the French, are you going to play 3.Nc3 Bb4?  Sure!  I t is a fully viable line!  What about 3.Nd2 Bb4?  Or 3.e5 Bb4?  Or what about 3.exd5 Bb4?  Of course not!  With c2-c4 not played and no White Knight blocking the c-pawn, these would all be stupid because of 4.c3!

 

Understanding these fundamentals, like prevent e4, c2-c4 weakens the a5-e1 diagonal, etc is the important part, not how many different names there are to what you play.

punter99

Okay but that guides you only through the first few moves.

Against Nf3 Black has to make a choice between the Vienna, Ragozin, Semi Slav, QGD, QID or Bogo. 

Every opening can lead to different pawn structures, and every opening has critical lines where Black ends up passive or slighty worse if he doesn't know what to do.

Of course it's possible to pick some lines that have some similarity or possibly transpose to the Nimzo repertoire but still you have to dive in a little bit deeper

TwoMove

There is also the ambitious/tone of the opening. Arguably the most consistent  with the Nimzo is the Queen's Indian in controlling e4 from a distance.  The Nimzo has some unbalancing, sharp lines were can play for win. Whilst a lot of the QI lines are quite dry and positional

Ethan_Brollier
TwoMove wrote:

There is also the ambitious/tone of the opening. Arguably the most consistent with the Nimzo is the Queen's Indian in controlling e4 from a distance. The Nimzo has some unbalancing, sharp lines were can play for win. Whilst a lot of the QI lines are quite dry and positional

Assuming 3. Nf3, I’d argue that it’s dependent on what you play in the NID. If one plays the Samisch, it might be best to learn the QID. If one plays the Noa or Ragozin, it might be best to learn the Ragozin. If one plays the Berlin or Hubner or other c5 lines, perhaps the Benoni would work well.

1Lindamea1

As a 1.e6 player, i have really basic knowledge of nimzo/queen's - indian defences. Basically you HAVE to know both nimzo and queen's indian for any one of them to work. The way I play is trying to not allow e4 by white, and build a huge pawn pyramid on the queen side

And the queen's indian happens when you don't have to pin the knight
i know that correct theoretical play involves early d5/c5 pawn breaks, but i like to simplify it to just controlling e4 and playing d5 c5 when safe
1Lindamea1
Ethan_Brollier написал:
TwoMove wrote:

There is also the ambitious/tone of the opening. Arguably the most consistent with the Nimzo is the Queen's Indian in controlling e4 from a distance. The Nimzo has some unbalancing, sharp lines were can play for win. Whilst a lot of the QI lines are quite dry and positional

Assuming 3. Nf3, I’d argue that it’s dependent on what you play in the NID. If one plays the Samisch, it might be best to learn the QID. If one plays the Noa or Ragozin, it might be best to learn the Ragozin. If one plays the Berlin or Hubner or other c5 lines, perhaps the Benoni would work well.

Bro's a necromant

Ethan_Brollier
lassus_dinnao wrote:
Ethan_Brollier написал:
TwoMove wrote:

There is also the ambitious/tone of the opening. Arguably the most consistent with the Nimzo is the Queen's Indian in controlling e4 from a distance. The Nimzo has some unbalancing, sharp lines were can play for win. Whilst a lot of the QI lines are quite dry and positional

Assuming 3. Nf3, I’d argue that it’s dependent on what you play in the NID. If one plays the Samisch, it might be best to learn the QID. If one plays the Noa or Ragozin, it might be best to learn the Ragozin. If one plays the Berlin or Hubner or other c5 lines, perhaps the Benoni would work well.

Bro's a necromant

Analyzed a bunch of KID lines and couldn’t find hide nor tail of the Mar del Plata no matter what moves I played. Eventually I looked it up and found some really interesting forums I decided to bump, considering all the TRASH going around these days.