French, advance, Euwe variation Nh6

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TwoMove

If look earlier in the thread, will see some points to 5...Bd7, which is played by players like Korchnoi, Yusupov and other GM's. Agree it doesn't go especially well with Nh6, although it is probably still playable.

TwoMove

Not quite especially when black. For example in your analysis diagram 7Bxh6 is perfectly good for white, and 7...Qxb2?? isn't playable after 8Be3 QxR 9Qc2 the queen isn't coming out. So black needs to play 7...gxh6 etc.

It is also something learn't from vote chess. Just because someone makes a diagram, doesn't make their moves shown correct.

TwoMove

Smile I see Houdini has been switched on. Yes 7....Qxb2?? was a bit excessive, but it is a known inferior line. Watson 3rd edition suggests 10...Bd7 blacks best try. In your line 11...Nb4 12Bb5ch looks more testing.

TwoMove

Watson doesn't cover the 6...Nh6 line in 4th edition. Looks at the more conservative 6...pxp then Nh6, where there is no, umm, controversy over whether Qxb2 is good or not. Also more ambitous 6...f6. Of course using engines is fair enough, but think it is more honest to say and stockfish, or what ever, pumped out this line , and dispense with the puncuation ! etc entirely. 

Tobiashermansen

I think it is better to play Qb6 before Nh6, because if he then plays Bxh6 you can play Qxb2 (threathening the rook) before recapturing the bishop. Then you have an extra pawn in addition to the open g-file and bishop pair.

Tobiashermansen
BettorOffSingle wrote:
Tobiashermansen wrote:

I think it is better to play Qb6 before Nh6, because if he then plays Bxh6 you can play Qxb2 (threathening the rook) before recapturing the bishop. Then you have an extra pawn in addition to the open g-file and bishop pair.

I want him to play 4. Bxh6.  That's the entire point of 3...Nh6.  Nothing wrong with an open g-file, the free tempi, Bishop pair, and an easier attack on e5 with f6 (since the kingside is wiped anwyay). 

Fritz says it's dead equal, and I love it.  Read up on Euwe too: he was a part-time player and math professor who believed in "logical" chess.  Very ultramodern:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Euwe

He was a more than deserving champion and his style was perfect to withstand the onslaught of an overconfident Alekhine.

I agree, 4. Bxh6 is probably not the best move for white. It gives black the opportunity to break in the center with a well-timed f6, he has the open g-file, and a lot of possibilities on the kingside. But what do you think white should play instead of 4. Bxh6?

I think this is a very intesting line that looks fun to play. And if white
doesn´t take, what should black do, and where should he bring his knight? Maybe to f5 to put pressure on d4?

J3MP7ym37Hod
BettorOffSingle wrote:

Even if Euwe didn't play 3...Nh6, the entire idea is his, and it is very counterintuitive.  I'm sure he'd approve of it becoming the main line for Black against the Advance or Tarrasch.

It might be acceptable vs. the Advance, but it makes little sense against the Tarrasch.  One idea is that the knight will hop to ...f5 after White commits to e5.  Problem is, to get White to commit to e5 in the Tarrasch, you have to play ...Nf6

Tobiashermansen

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1708352
I think this rapid game Laine-Short is very interesting (link was posted earlier in this thread). Short does not place a rook in the open g-file, instead he chooses to castle kingside. I would have found it more natural to place a rook on g1, castle queenside, strike in the center with f6 and maybe start a kingside attack.

I also found it interesting how Short managed to activate his light-squared bishop to g6, it is usually quite inactive for a long time in many variation in the French.

Tobiashermansen
BettorOffSingle wrote:
Tobiashermansen wrote:

I think it is better to play Qb6 before Nh6, because if he then plays Bxh6 you can play Qxb2 (threathening the rook) before recapturing the bishop. Then you have an extra pawn in addition to the open g-file and bishop pair.

I'm sure you can get away with Qb6, but it is not thematic.  The direct question should be resolved before moving on to any delayed alternatives.

Computers have shown a very wide latitude when it comes to the opening, though precision is still rewarded in that you'll be better prepared, with greater margin for error, but only slightly compared to the 1980s, when not hanging material got you to 1600.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1084055 

In this game (link also posted earlier in this thread) Viktor Korchnoi plays 5...Qb6 before playing 6...Nh6. I think Qb6 is a good move in this variation of the French, because it puts pressure on both b2 and d4. I think you can play it both before and after Nh6. 

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1708352
In this game Nigel Short plays Qb6 after Nh6, so I think this move is very relevant to the Euwe variation and should be considered.

Nordlandia
Tobiashermansen wrote:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1708352
I think this rapid game Laine-Short is very interesting (link was posted earlier in this thread). Short does not place a rook in the open g-file, instead he chooses to castle kingside. I would have found it more natural to place a rook on g1, castle queenside, strike in the center with f6 and maybe start a kingside attack.

I also found it interesting how Short managed to activate his light-squared bishop to g6, it is usually quite inactive for a long time in many variation in the French.

Nice example. Black is given the bishop pair for the structural damage, but due to the closed nature of the french pawn-chain, it's not easy to exploit it. However short managed to open the centre.

Tobiashermansen
BettorOffSingle wrote:
Tobiashermansen wrote:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1708352
I think this rapid game Laine-Short is very interesting (link was posted earlier in this thread). Short does not place a rook in the open g-file, instead he chooses to castle kingside. I would have found it more natural to place a rook on g1, castle queenside, strike in the center with f6 and maybe start a kingside attack.

I also found it interesting how Short managed to activate his light-squared bishop to g6, it is usually quite inactive for a long time in many variation in the French.

The main problem with the French is actually the Ng8, and sacrificial attacks on the kingside.  Castling kingside is not uncommon in the Euwe, as is not castling at all.

Yes, the g8-knight often struggles to find a square where it is useful. It 
can´t go to e7 because the dark-squared bishop will be trapped and it has to guard c5. It often goes to from g8-h6-f5 where it puts pressure on d4. The problem with having the knight on f5 is that if white can put his light-squared bishop on e3, he can play Bxf5 and destroy blacks pawn structure.

Where you should castle in the Euwe is an interesting question, and castling kingside is a good option. Even though the g-file is open and the king looks a bit threathened, this is perfectly safe, because the minor pieces (the two bishops) gives it sufficient protection and there is no easy way for white to attack blacks king without exploiting his own. It is easier for white to attack on the queenside.

I should also mention that the doubled pawn on h6 is quite important as it stops white from almost any play on the kingside. It stops any ideas with Ng5 or even Qg5, and it makes it difficult to accomplish anything with a pawn storm. So i agree that castling kingside or not castle at all is probably better than castling queenside.

TheOldReb
Tobiashermansen wrote:
BettorOffSingle wrote:
Tobiashermansen wrote:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1708352
I think this rapid game Laine-Short is very interesting (link was posted earlier in this thread). Short does not place a rook in the open g-file, instead he chooses to castle kingside. I would have found it more natural to place a rook on g1, castle queenside, strike in the center with f6 and maybe start a kingside attack.

I also found it interesting how Short managed to activate his light-squared bishop to g6, it is usually quite inactive for a long time in many variation in the French.

The main problem with the French is actually the Ng8, and sacrificial attacks on the kingside.  Castling kingside is not uncommon in the Euwe, as is not castling at all.

Yes, the g8-knight often struggles to find a square where it is useful. It 
can´t go to e7 because the dark-squared bishop will be trapped and it has to guard c5. It often goes to from g8-h6-f5 where it puts pressure on d4. The problem with having the knight on f5 is that if white can put his light-squared bishop on e3, he can play Bxf5 and destroy blacks pawn structure.

Where you should castle in the Euwe is an interesting question, and castling kingside is a good option. Even though the g-file is open and the king looks a bit threathened, this is perfectly safe, because the minor pieces (the two bishops) gives it sufficient protection and there is no easy way for white to attack blacks king without exploiting his own. It is easier for white to attack on the queenside.

I should also mention that the doubled pawn on h6 is quite important as it stops white from almost any play on the kingside. It stops any ideas with Ng4 or even Qg4, and it makes it difficult to accomplish anything with a pawn storm. So i agree that castling kingside or not castle at all is probably better than castling queenside.

If white puts his light squared bishop on e3 isnt he cheating ?! If not then its no longer a light quared bishop but a dark squared one when it gets to e3 .  Wink

Tobiashermansen
Reb wrote:
Tobiashermansen wrote:
BettorOffSingle wrote:
Tobiashermansen wrote:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1708352
I think this rapid game Laine-Short is very interesting (link was posted earlier in this thread). Short does not place a rook in the open g-file, instead he chooses to castle kingside. I would have found it more natural to place a rook on g1, castle queenside, strike in the center with f6 and maybe start a kingside attack.

I also found it interesting how Short managed to activate his light-squared bishop to g6, it is usually quite inactive for a long time in many variation in the French.

The main problem with the French is actually the Ng8, and sacrificial attacks on the kingside.  Castling kingside is not uncommon in the Euwe, as is not castling at all.

Yes, the g8-knight often struggles to find a square where it is useful. It 
can´t go to e7 because the dark-squared bishop will be trapped and it has to guard c5. It often goes to from g8-h6-f5 where it puts pressure on d4. The problem with having the knight on f5 is that if white can put his light-squared bishop on e3, he can play Bxf5 and destroy blacks pawn structure.

Where you should castle in the Euwe is an interesting question, and castling kingside is a good option. Even though the g-file is open and the king looks a bit threathened, this is perfectly safe, because the minor pieces (the two bishops) gives it sufficient protection and there is no easy way for white to attack blacks king without exploiting his own. It is easier for white to attack on the queenside.

I should also mention that the doubled pawn on h6 is quite important as it stops white from almost any play on the kingside. It stops any ideas with Ng4 or even Qg4, and it makes it difficult to accomplish anything with a pawn storm. So i agree that castling kingside or not castle at all is probably better than castling queenside.

If white puts his light squared bishop on e3 isnt he cheating ?! If not then its no longer a light quared bishop but a dark squared one when it gets to e3 .  

Yeah I meant d3 :)

TwoMove

In most cases 3...Nh6 is going to tranpose to more well-known line 3....c5 4c3 Nc6 5Nf3 Nh6. Not sure what Euwe has to do with it, but if it's only a name...

Nordlandia
TwoMove

If you don't know, how can anyone else Undecided

Moskalenko  in Flexible French thinks  6.Bxh6?! is a mistake. For instance : 6 ... gxh6 7 Bd3

(7.dxc5 Qc7 !?) 7 ... Qb6 (7 ... Bg7 !?)

8.Qd2 Bd7 !? 9.dxc5 Qc7! 10.Qf4 Bg7 11 Qg3 O-O! and Black's pieces are

excellendy positioned.

Spectator94

Flexible French or the Even More Flexible French from 2015 Tongue Out