French Defence or Pirc Defence ?

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Avatar of Karrysparov

Frankly I feel like the french defense can attempt to take center control faster than the pirc can

Avatar of Optimissed

The French is the stronger defence. It's rock solid.

Avatar of EKAFC

I am a big French fan which you can learn more about in my French study

 

The Pirc is something I love to face even as a d4 player because of this very high probability trap. I will only show the trap and allow you to do your own work for the best continuation 

This even worked against a GM on Lichess so it still has venom and is even more lethal if you transpose into a Pirc from d4 as this doesn't work against the King's Indian

Avatar of Steven-ODonoghue
EKAFC wrote:

I am a big French fan which you can learn more about in my French study

 

The Pirc is something I love to face even as a d4 player because of this very high probability trap. I will only show the trap and allow you to do your own work for the best continuation 

This even worked against a GM on Lichess so it still has venom and is even more lethal if you transpose into a Pirc from d4 as this doesn't work against the King's Indian

I suppose you learnt this trick from Jonathan Schrantz's popular video. This is what I play against the Pirc now as well, mainly due to Jonathan's video.

Fun fact: when I played him on lichess Johnathan fell for his own trap and resigned against me on move 9 tongue.png

 

Avatar of pfren
Steven-ODonoghue wrote:
EKAFC wrote:

I am a big French fan which you can learn more about in my French study

 

The Pirc is something I love to face even as a d4 player because of this very high probability trap. I will only show the trap and allow you to do your own work for the best continuation 

This even worked against a GM on Lichess so it still has venom and is even more lethal if you transpose into a Pirc from d4 as this doesn't work against the King's Indian

I suppose you learnt this trick from Jonathan Schrantz's popular video. This is what I play against the Pirc now as well, mainly due to Jonathan's video.

Fun fact: when I played him on lichess Johnathan fell for his own trap and resigned against me on move 9 

 

 

Shockingly enough quite a few videos of this guy are popular. Did he win against the computer this time, or not?

Of course this "trap" is nothing, actually after 5.e5?! Nfd7, Black is already totally fine.

Avatar of Steven-ODonoghue
pfren wrote:

 

Of course this "trap" is nothing, actually after 5.e5?! Nfd7, Black is already totally fine.

Obviously 4.Bg5 is far from being the most testing setup against the Pirc, and even 5.e5 is probably inferior to a simple 5.Qd2 (as recommended by Lakdawala) but I still like white in these lines.

5.e5 Nfd7 6.exd6 cxd6 7.Qd2 h6 8.Be3 Nf6 9.h3 Nbd7 10.Nf3 a6 11.a4 is analysed as slightly better for white in FM Plichta's chessable repertoire, and I agree.

7...0-0 is met by 8.h4! and I think black's position is already very difficult to handle for human players.

Avatar of pfren
Steven-ODonoghue wrote:
 

Obviously 4.Bg5 is far from being the most testing setup against the Pirc, and even 5.e5 is probably inferior to a simple 5.Qd2 (as recommended by Lakdawala) but I still like white in these lines.

 

Even more obviously, since Black found some acceptable ways to meet the Austrian, 4.Be3 and 4.Bg5 are probably the most testing moves against the Pirc.

Avatar of DrSpudnik

I'd like to know why after 1. Nc3 Nf6 2. e4 black didn't play d5 to transpose to the awkward variation of the declined Aljechin?

Avatar of HansSchmendrick

The Byrne variation discussed above is indeed tricky for the unaware but not a big problem. I’m surprised nobody has advocated the Austrian Attack which is very dangerous. There is another line where White plays quietly with an early a4 and h3 that takes the sting out of the Pirc. A number of people have mentioned similarities of the Pirc to the King’s Indian. I do well with the Pirc but have a lot of trouble with the KID. Anyhow, as one who has converted from the French to the Pirc this has been a useful discussion. 

Avatar of sndeww

French defense by far. Teaches you about pawn play and maneuvering, two skills I think many people neglect.

Avatar of SwimmerBill

In the '70's I played Pirc-Modern for a while after being inspired by the bizarre games of Suttles. I had a series of bizarre games of my own against strong players where we didnt know till the end who was winning. I finally dropped it when I got crushed in a game and couldn't find a significant improvement. (I switched to the Schliemann which was easy then because everyone played the Ruy Lopez vs 1. e4 e4.) If you want a defense that is fundamentally sound so that when you lose you'll know it wasn't the defense it was how you played it, I'd say try the French & see if it 'feels right'.

Avatar of sndeww

Suttles plays very weird stuff. I play his Nh3-Nf2 stuff in bullet- very fun.

Avatar of Optimissed

Also they're very short moves, so in that opening, there's a lot of little moves like g3 and f3 and Bg2, Nh3, Nf2 and all these moves take fractionally less time than things like Bc4 and Bg5. It isn't much but it all adds up.

Of course, that's why bullet isn't chess.

Avatar of sndeww

I mean, Suttles is a GM and he plays it against GM opponents... over the board. 

Avatar of Optimissed

Bullet?

Avatar of sndeww

I implied that it was serious tournament games

I personally only play his setup in bullet; he doesn't.

Avatar of Optimissed

Implications are way beyond me. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjsk4zz8tf2AhWMTcAKHfBnBtoQyCl6BAgREAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEtYS3EYjVyk&usg=AOvVaw0y7qqh-ZWkt706TxYuFtKf

Avatar of sndeww

I could click on it, but I choose not to because I don't feel like doing it

Avatar of Optimissed

It's a song by Love, which was Arthur Lee's group, called The Red Telephone.

Arthur Lee was "supposed" to have served in US Marine Special Forces in Vietnam but there seems to be zero mention of it in Wiki or elsewhere, although there used to be. Either it was a mistake or was edited out by some political activist, maybe because he was black.

Avatar of Sack_o_Potatoes
HansSchmendrick wrote:

The Pirc, if only because you don’t have to deal with the French Exchange variation, the most boring line in the world.

That MIGHT be true